Rider error - Now the highest ACC claims stat

[Genestho]

Thanks for posting that. However, I was told that years ago there was specific motorcycle training that was required before you could get a full motorcycle license - where is that now? Why was it not brought back when it was clear there was a problem? What was the rationale behind removing it in the first place?

Seriously, if ACC or any government really gave a shit about getting motorcycle injuries down then they would DO something about it. Here they admit training is an issue, yet they have NO formal training, except the farse that is the defensive driving course.

So I call "bullshit" I'm 'fraid. I doubt the government is really interested in doing anything at all except furthering their own industry or more political grandstanding.

Take a look at the French motorcycle training. They have 20 (I think) hours of training before they will even let you on the road, and that costs thousands too. The stupid low-speed carpark thing we do in NZ is absurd.

Prove me wrong, though. Where is the compulsory training before 6F? What about ACC sponsored track days and advanced training?


Steve

Even though what you say makes some sense, I can't answer most of what you're asking dude. Email them and ask!?

Interesting you ask about ACC sponsored track days, that was bought up.
Also, what you need to understand and consider, is the budget for RoadSafety is spread out across alot of concerns, it's a big pot, it ends up chopped into little pieces, and then by region.

[Winston001]

But why do you think that is? and why was it included?

Because who are likely to own Italian bikes? The age-group that fits in with the born-agains.

My impression from rallies is that older motorcyclists who come back to riding buy Harley Davidsons. And BMWs. And adventure bikes. Not sports bikes because after a certain age....well, they just ain't too comfortable.


Unless like me you are really staunch and hardcore. Now, where's that cup of Horlicks......

[AllanB]

Interesting post.

It is good to see that Maori bikers are excelling in crashing above the Pakeha riders, I get sick of seeing media reports of the Maori being at the bottom of comparisons.

Seriously WTF has race got to do with it?, have they looked into why?

Maybe they ride harder & faster or maybe they ride more scooters and crash in town. Maybe Maori should be banned from Italian bikes?

"Sorry sir you are not eligible to purchase that Ducati, step over here as I also have a nice one-owner GN250...."

Personally I blame The Queen - there were ZERO motorcycle crashes in NZ until she sent her representatives over here.....

[Katman]

i am no aware that there has ever been a formal requirement for specific training for a 6F, although I may be wrong.
AFAIK, ACC sponsors RRRS courses...again I accept I can be wrong!

There certainly wasn't any requirement for approved training to get your full license in the early 80's. But by completing an approved course you could get your full straight away. (As opposed to having to be on a restricted license for 6 months). I would suggest the standards required (and costs incurred) for a full license back then were way lower than todays levels.

[CookMySock]

[...] by completing an approved course you could get your full straight away.

I think this is likely what I heard.

It's foolishness trying to ride even a GT250R on rural NZ roads at 100 km/hr with no training, and anyone on their L plate can do that.

At least people should be formally taught to steer the damn thing.. and seriously, thats what's killing people. A steering lesson is only an hour, and results in a whole new look at riding.

Steve

[EJT]

Maori Riders caused the most crashes ethnicity wise


Group Ride Safety Education!

And I'd say in general a campaign aimed at Motorcyclists to "look out for themselves" Perhaps publicity around ie; countersteering when taking corners too fast, target fixation (there's another name that was used) and other issues faced on the roads concerning rider error.

Bit confused about the Maori riders bit. How do you "cause" crashes on a bike? Is it by wheeling past a slow riding newbie? Knee down in front of a scooter? Scaring the shit out of grannie in the toyota by screaming past at 200? Or do you mean they suffer the most crashes, which again would be surprising given the number of Maori riding?

Agreed that we need more rider education. Something like RRRS should be compulsory before graduating to a full.

[crazyhorse]

That's actually quite amazing!!!

[Hitcher]

One presumes that not being Maori nor living in the Easter (sic) Bay of Plenty will negate the effects of owning an Italian motorcycle.

[sondela]

One presumes that not being Maori nor living in the Easter (sic) Bay of Plenty will negate the effects of owning an Italian motorcycle.

Haha indeed, one rather hopes you presume correctly..

[quickbuck]

Righto,
Firstly, I have been to one of these ACC meetings too.
The whole point of them is they DO NOT want to keep paying out for claims.
They are actually asking us as motorcyclists for ideas to improve the situation we are currently in... We are currently NOT Good people!

Yes, we have Stats to interoperate, BUT if all the measuring points remain the same and the trend tends to worsen this means the situation is not going to
get any better without change.

My thoughts are compulsory training before 6R and 6F (on top of the current training for 6L)
Also subsidised training (Subsidy from ACC) every 5 years or so.... for motorcyclists.
Or re-sit every 10 for 6F...
Something along those lines.

Oh, and all those of us who got our licences way back when they were giving them out at the post office should at least do a practical course on the track (eg HRC, Suzuki etc) or RRRS, or Police... Or all of the above...

If you haven't ridden for a number of years, doing a course BEFORE picking up your new pride and joy would be a very smart move as well.

Now, all this may well be a bit of a burden on the current training facilities and providers we have....
Also, it may well be hopeless if the current general attitude toward improving ones skill sets remains...

[Genestho]

Bit confused about the Maori riders bit. How do you "cause" crashes on a bike? Is it by wheeling past a slow riding newbie? Knee down in front of a scooter? Scaring the shit out of grannie in the toyota by screaming past at 200? Or do you mean they suffer the most crashes, which again would be surprising given the number of Maori riding?

Agreed that we need more rider education. Something like RRRS should be compulsory before graduating to a full.

My shorthand says Maori, highest, dangerous. At that point the discussion were bullet points of causative factors.

The particular points in bold were read out loud from the police crash analysis preparation report!

As I say, don't shoot the messenger. I don't mean anything, but passing on what I heard.

I accepted the invite for the same two small reasons, that I posted the Thread - A) and B) in the first post!

I didn't go to argue, but to listen and learn.

[TonyB]

If you believe in Keith Code's theory of "Survival Reactions" (which I do) then statistics which show that rider error causes the majority of crashes would be right on the money.

This could be a good thing! If ACC seriously want to reduce the number of rider error crashes, then there's every chance that they will be considering subsidising quality rider training.

[Genestho]

Righto,
Firstly, I have been to one of these ACC meetings too.
The whole point of them is they DO NOT want to keep paying out for claims.
They are actually asking us as motorcyclists for ideas to improve the situation we are currently in... We are currently NOT Good people!

Yes, we have Stats to interoperate, BUT if all the measuring points remain the same and the trend tends to worsen this means the situation is not going to
get any better without change.

Also, it may well be hopeless if the current general attitude toward improving ones skill sets remains...

Exactly!! To all of the above, we all have seen the effects on kb, or if they're not on kb, known of the stories of rider error downfalls. Contributing to change in these forecasted trends, can only be a positive!!

Also as far as training, I noted the trainer guy that came along today said, 22-30 yr/old women were easy to train, but this 15-19 age, of males will be difficult to train, being bullet proof and already knowing everything there is to know on roadriding!

[Genestho]

If you believe in Keith Code's theory of "Survival Reactions" (which I do) then statistics which show that rider error causes the majority of crashes would be right on the money.

This could be a good thing! If ACC seriously want to reduce the number of rider error crashes, then there's every chance that they will be considering subsidising quality rider training.

From what I understand in WBOP there is, absolutely every chance dependant on budget, which sounds as if they'll need to be pooled from a couple of sources! The rep from Police was a bike rider, and the ACC rep sounded like she'd pillioned on a Harley, they sounded pretty darn serious to reduce on road crashes!

[Ragingrob]

The thing is... I'm pretty sure that in the majority of all road-user crashes, "driver error" would be the highest ranking stat. How can a crash even occur without some form of "driver error'?

Unless mother earth eats the car, or poor roading was a cause, then all crashes are due to rider/driver error are they not?