Rider error - Now the highest ACC claims stat

**dipshit** · 26th June 2009, 12:23

Originally Posted by RAC

Anecdotally, and from my own experience, in 2+ vehicle accidents the majority of fault can still be laid at the other drivers door, (particularly at intersections and in traffic)

Talk about just making things up out of thin air. In multiple vehicle accidents, it is about 50/50 car/motorcyclist fault in NZ fairly consistently for the last few years.

but that still leaves around 40% single vehicle (the bike) or rider error accidents.

Well in fatal motorcycle accidents... 75% are rider error.

**RAC** · 26th June 2009, 13:59

is it still plucking it out of thin air when i consistently see it at work? thats why i said "anecdotally" and "my experience", and to illustrate the difference between an official black and white figure on a piece of paper and the various greys of reality.

**Genestho** · 26th June 2009, 14:11

Originally Posted by Winston001

Whooaa there Neddy!! If I read this correctly, Maori Ducati riders are in the highest risk bracket....

must get that genealogy chart out...

And at a higher level - motorcyclists themselves are at fault????

Yeah right.

We all know its the cagers/police/roading contractors who are responsible for motorcycle accidents. Really, where do you get this stuff from!

Well, before we get defensive, I think I found what the point is in narrowing the Ethnicity stats down.

This speech is from the Maori Party yesterday, with regards to the Land Transport Ammendment, and roadside drug testing! Which Candor has been lobbying for, for 5 years after her Mum was killed at the hands of a P driver!

Thursday, 25 June 2009, 4:42 pm
Speech: The Maori Party

Land Transport Amendment Bill ; third reading
Wednesday 24 June 2009; 5.30pm
Te Ururoa Flavell, MP for Waiariki

"I read a statistic today that confirmed even more for me the importance of doing what we can to reduce injury and death on the roads.

Fifty-one percent of Māori people who die due to injury, died on the street or highway in road deaths. Forty-six percent of these deaths were due to motor vehicle crashes.
That is one hell of a waste of Māori potential that is just being ripped away from us because of hazardous driving and reckless drivers. It is not just a loss of life that we are talking about here, which is a tragedy in itself, but also the estimated social cost of road crashes includes loss of life or life quality, medical and rehabilitation costs, legal and court costs, property damage, and loss of output due to injuries.
These crashes resulted in 109 deaths, 556 serious injuries, and 1,768 minor injuries. These numbers are based on crashes where alcohol or dugs were proven or suspected to be a contributing factor in a crash: 100 hundred people who did not need to die; over 2,000 people who will never ever forget the idiot in charge of the wheel for what they did to impair their loss of enjoyment of life."

Link

Quite clearly, there is an ethnicity problem being recognised, and if the Maori Party can see it, and address the facts and leave the cries of racism out of it, this is a good thing!

**Winston001** · 26th June 2009, 15:47

Originally Posted by T.G.W

Fifty-one percent of Māori people who die due to injury, died on the street or highway in road deaths. Forty-six percent of these deaths were due to motor vehicle crashes.

Interesting figures and its good the Maori Party are supporting the new law. My gut reaction is that motor vehicle accidents must account for a high percentage of total injuries among the population for all ethnicities. Not 50% though - that is very high when you consider farming, forestry, freezing works etc etc.

**Genestho** · 26th June 2009, 16:00

Originally Posted by Winston001

Interesting figures and its good the Maori Party are supporting the new law. My gut reaction is that motor vehicle accidents must account for a high percentage of total injuries among the population for all ethnicities. Not 50% though - that is very high when you consider farming, forestry, freezing works etc etc.

Yea I get what you're saying there, sorry to take it slightly off topic, but I just wondered if there is a specific reason why ethnicity has become an issue. If there wasn't a point, it wouldn't have been a bullet point, there must be some amount of concern?
Or even reference to Italian bikes, as you say.
Unless data collection is becoming more defined?
Or has it always been this defined and we've never known? I don't know...think I'll have to find out.

**RAC** · 26th June 2009, 16:40

ACC45 claim forms have some very specific ethnicity tickboxes, about 15, and space to write yours in if you are, for instance, a New Zealander......

**Genestho** · 26th June 2009, 16:45

Originally Posted by RAC

ACC45 claim forms have some very specific ethnicity tickboxes, about 15, and space to write yours in if you are, for instance, a New Zealander......

What about police crash analysis data though? Seperate co-alation of different material isn't it? Or no? I'm a newb, and didn't get to ask all the questions. Ethicity was mentioned via the crash data, not the ACC data.

**Winston001** · 26th June 2009, 18:47

Well ethnicity is simple. We have a bi-cultural nation where Maori are politically active and sifting out Maori stats makes sense. I'd guess other ethnicities are also collated in the same stats.

The trouble with getting all of this interesting data is the forms required grow exponentially in size. So filling them out takes much longer, then someone else has to enter the data into electronic form so it has meaning.

I chaired a charity a few years ago providing medical services. The employed staff spent 54% of their time collecting and entering data.

That means they spent only 46% of their time actually do the job they were employed for.

Today that data is locked up in the Hocken Library and might be looked at in 100 years out of curiosity by some history researcher.

**Genestho** · 26th June 2009, 20:40

Originally Posted by Winston001

The trouble with getting all of this interesting data is the forms required grow exponentially in size. So filling them out takes much longer, then someone else has to enter the data into electronic form so it has meaning.

I chaired a charity a few years ago providing medical services. The employed staff spent 54% of their time collecting and entering data.

That means they spent only 46% of their time actually do the job they were employed for.

Is that the difference though between an NGO (assuming it was an NGO?) and Govt agencies?
Today that data is locked up in the Hocken Library and might be looked at in 100 years out of curiosity by some history researcher.

Mmmm. Data is a bugger of a thing, I was employed by a Govt owned NZ company (well it was back then) to input data. And yeah, say no more!

Well the feedback I get from here, is that A) Training would be welcomed.

B)Stats are an issue! Which I'd already made clear yesterday, and made a call and reiterated that this morning.

I guess if they want the Motorcycling Community onboard perhaps the raw data needs to be available and published, even then I think there'd be dubious belief, however, we do already know, that in the last 12 months there's been a load of rider error fatalities, do we really need convincing that badly?

Anyway, if anyone is interested, and I don't get a slap over the knuckles, for publishing the meeting, I'll provide an update down the track, or if anyone else is involved - perhaps they may want to shed light!