Tyre wear at VMCC Rd 2

[Crasherfromwayback]

I repeat, there would be MAJOR tyre issues with stock suspension, especially with the 600s AND 1000s. What part of that dont you understand???????

I understand more than you think I do Robert.

The suspension regulations rules for 2010 have been locked in for some time, before that MNZ conference. Nothing is decided beyond and its going to committee hearings from here on in.
Aaron was I believe an invite from the pro stock suspension lobby and really he should have known better. His days of racing proddy bikes were when there was a lot less horsepower, flimsy frames and less footprint to challenge tyres. The tyres were also a lot less developed / focused than they are now and more forgiving. That was the past and we are not going back there.
Production Superbikes probably have about the same horsepower as the WSBK bikes Aaron used to race and if Honda had turned up with stock production suspension for him to race with I imagine he would have laughed in their faces! So on that basis his presence had no credibility. ( I have absolutely no personal issues with Aaron )
.

While Aarons proddie bikes back then did have less HP...and the frames were shittier...the tyres smaller (although an FZR1000 used a 180 from memory)...

So what? Todays frames are stiffer and better....the brakes are better...the tyres better...and HELLO...the suspension is BETTER too! How 'bout that?? So really...what's different Robert? It's all just the same as when Aaron was racing and winning on stock suspension then innit? If it's what you've got..you've just gotta get on and race. What part of that don't you understand?

[slowpoke]

The suspension regulations rules for 2010 have been locked in for some time, before that MNZ conference. Nothing is decided beyond and its going to committee hearings from here on in.
Aaron was I believe an invite from the pro stock suspension lobby and really he should have known better. His days of racing proddy bikes were when there was a lot less horsepower, flimsy frames and less footprint to challenge tyres. The tyres were also a lot less developed / focused than they are now and more forgiving. That was the past and we are not going back there.
Production Superbikes probably have about the same horsepower as the WSBK bikes Aaron used to race and if Honda had turned up with stock production suspension for him to race with I imagine he would have laughed in their faces! So on that basis his presence had no credibility. ( I have absolutely no personal issues with Aaron )
There is also one suspension tuner who has been in the road race game only a little over two years, if the rules change to production based he will make more money than dealing with aftermarket ( as would I ) I call that vested interest.
We should keep up with the rest of the world and not aspire to third world mentality. Recessions dont last forever. At VMCC round 2 there were 34 bikes in the Superbike / 600 field and 90% were fitted with aftermarket suspension, 2 that werent have now ordered aftermarket either as new or secondhand.
The numbers and equipment are there!!!! Its a matter of re-organising the Nationals to attract those riders.

Yep, Aaron is a living legend and seems like a great bloke as well, but as knowledgeable as he is about racing bikes it's a long time since he had to actually pay for anything regarding racing, and that's what the suspension issue is about.

Sure you can turn a fast lap on a modern bike on stock suspension but we want to be able to turn those laps consistently and at a reasonable cost over a full couple of season's competition. The fact that aftermarket suspension makes bikes quicker is secondary to the fact that it also has the potential to make them cheaper to race in the long term.

[Robert Taylor]

I understand more than you think I do Robert.



While Aarons proddie bikes back then did have less HP...and the frames were shittier...the tyres smaller (although an FZR1000 used a 180 from memory)...

So what? Todays frames are stiffer and better....the brakes are better...the tyres better...and HELLO...the suspension is BETTER too! How 'bout that?? So really...what's different Robert? It's all just the same as when Aaron was racing and winning on stock suspension then innit? If it's what you've got..you've just gotta get on and race. What part of that don't you understand?

If stock suspension was THAT good there wouldnt be any need of aftermarket suppliers making better stuff and there wouldnt have been immense worldwide growth in that market. And no its not the same as it was back then, its not as simplistic as your comfort zone fools you into believing. I note that you dont race a 600 or 1000.
Dredge through all the multitudes of posts explaining the issues. Or choose to be blind to the reality,

[Crasherfromwayback]

If stock suspension was THAT good there wouldnt be any need of aftermarket suppliers making better stuff and there wouldnt have been immense worldwide growth in that market. And no its not the same as it was back then, its not as simplistic as your comfort zone fools you into believing. I note that you dont race a 600 or 1000.
Dredge through all the multitudes of posts explaining the issues. Or choose to be blind to the reality,

There's an after market for cams too Robert...and clutch levers...and footpegs. So what? Have I raced a 600 or a thou? Nope. Only a KX500, a KR1S and SP...an RS250 Honda, a GPZ1100, an 883 and an RMZ450. That's the road race side of things. Couldn't tell you how many different moto-x bikes I've raced. I have no doubt if I was given the opportunity to race a modern 600 or thou it'd be no real problem. They're all just motorcycles. You know...handle bars...seat...footpegs and levers. One for the clutch...one for the front brake...and of course...the go fast grip!

[Robert Taylor]

There's an after market for cams too Robert...and clutch levers...and footpegs. So what? Have I raced a 600 or a thou? Nope. Only a KX500, a KR1S and SP...an RS250 Honda, a GPZ1100, an 883 and an RMZ450. That's the road race side of things. Couldn't tell you how many different moto-x bikes I've raced. I have no doubt if I was given the opportunity to race a modern 600 or thou it'd be no real problem. They're all just motorcycles. You know...handle bars...seat...footpegs and levers. One for the clutch...one for the front brake...and of course...the go fast grip!

So you work for a shop that has over the years sold lots of aftermarket shock absorbers. To cure known deficiencies / shortcomings with ride comfort, ride height control and rapid tyre wear. Same issues for cruisers and sportbikes.
Are you telling your principals and customers that really there is no need and they need to toughen up, no problem???
Do I tell all the people that come to me that they are just imagining things?

[Pussy]

There is also one suspension tuner who has been in the road race game only a little over two years, if the rules change to production based he will make more money than dealing with aftermarket ( as would I ) I call that vested interest.

Is this the guy who was telling me that he flew F-4s for the USAF in Afghanistan.... and that he has flown DC3s on agricultural operations (I've been around/in the industry since the early 80s, never heard of him!) etc etc?

People will see through it.
He has a black belt in bullshit

[codgyoleracer]

No and yes.

As per my first post in this thread that particular long track throws up some major setup compromises and tyre wear issues, it gets a whole lot worse in the ridiculously cold temps we race in.
Some very valid points have been raised by Glen, Glen and GSVR etc. Here are a few more;

1) Many of the new tyres we purchase are not new at all! They are often up to 3 years old and as Shaun has eluded to may have been subject to unacceptably wide temperature fluctuations in storage. Unacceptable but then consumers price demands may in effect be driving part of that .

2) For consistent and acceptable tyre performance they should be no older than 1 year old.

3) NZ is a very price concious market and I would imagine that some of the tyre distributors may purchase ''specials'' from the manufacturers. The specials relating to price specials. You get good batches of home baking and not so good batches. The baking also has a storage lifespan. Ditto for tyres.

4) If you are using hand me downs then likely the tyres are well past their best and will exhibit issues more readily

5) There is a temperature operating window for tyres and compounds, that ''window'' has got a lot narrower even over the last couple of years.

6) Soft compound tyres on cold tracks are a recipe for disaster, much sooner

7) SUSPENSION SETUP is indeed a huge factor. Yes you can screw tyres if the setup with your top shelf suspension is off. Point of fact the springing / preload etc has to often be firmer in the winter months to help build heat into the tyres. But with aftermarket suspension there are readily available spring options and the ability to revalve quickly using a setting bank of alternative damping curves / characteristics. Try that with a stock shock and also allow much much more time for revalve.
And I have to say it spring supply and exchange for Ohlins springs is in NZ VERY LIBERAL. In all other markets that I know of you have to purchase and own your own spring options. This makes a mockery of those that chastise my operation of being in it entirely for the money.

8) Tyre warmers should heat to no more than 75 degrees celsius. Tyres are like cakes. You can overcook them and ruin them. And how many heat cycles had many of the tyres used at the weekend been through?

And so on.....MISHY WHERE ARE YOU? You will be able to describe the technicalities of tyres much better than me.

QUOTE:
That popular brand, is probally the popular brand that is bringing in 2 year old tyres to sell to it;s customers here, for a cheaoish price, with high margins in them for importer, as they purchased them cheap, due to the age of the tyre?

Of course, I am only guessing ha ha ha yea write, i looked at 12 tyres last weekend, that were all 2 years old, yet just purchased
NEW here in the last month- strooth
__________________
shaun@motodynamix.co.nz



You guys do realise - that if you start pointing fingers at the tyre guys ,- they will start pointing back aye......... :-)

[Shaun]

QUOTE:
That popular brand, is probally the popular brand that is bringing in 2 year old tyres to sell to it;s customers here, for a cheaoish price, with high margins in them for importer, as they purchased them cheap, due to the age of the tyre?

Of course, I am only guessing ha ha ha yea write, i looked at 12 tyres last weekend, that were all 2 years old, yet just purchased
NEW here in the last month- strooth
__________________
shaun@motodynamix.co.nz



You guys do realise - that if you start pointing fingers at the tyre guys ,- they will start pointing back aye......... :-)

Maybe it will make them bring in current stock, instead of old stuff then!

[Robert Taylor]

QUOTE:
That popular brand, is probally the popular brand that is bringing in 2 year old tyres to sell to it;s customers here, for a cheaoish price, with high margins in them for importer, as they purchased them cheap, due to the age of the tyre?

Of course, I am only guessing ha ha ha yea write, i looked at 12 tyres last weekend, that were all 2 years old, yet just purchased
NEW here in the last month- strooth
__________________
shaun@motodynamix.co.nz



You guys do realise - that if you start pointing fingers at the tyre guys ,- they will start pointing back aye......... :-)

Yes there is that risk, but is this an unsatisfactory state of affairs, and people have a right to know that all is not what it seems.