Race tyres on the road?

[Brett]

it will be fine. I often run 190s on my 5.5 rim. There is a difference but real world normal riding means that you probably wont notice.


Interesting to note that Mrs C feels more comfortable on the back of the bike with 190s on it. The bike feels less flickable so turning is slower and more stable.

The whole bike feels much more solid and tight in its line, less flickable for sure, but defintely more sure footed.

I am running 190/55 on my spare rims on my 600, you be all good bro
i am running conti race attacks.

yeah, I don't think the difference is that much that I would ever really get too fussed over it at all...I actually thought the K4 & K4 series used the same rims on the 600, 750 & 1000?? Can you confirm?

[Cajun]

no the 1000 rim is a 6"

where 600/750 are 5.5" have been on all the 600-750 from k1+

pretty sure the old srad had 6" rear tho (know the 750 did, unsure on 600)

Bit unsure why you think its 'less flickable tho. i found they are more flickable since they are alot more triangle profile compared to the pp (run 2cts on the road rims)

[Drew]

To counter the slower turn in I will drop the front ride height a little and then it will be about as perfect handling as it has ever been.

Insure your bike before you steepen it up aye. Enjoy the front wheel tuckin under when it happens.

Tell me, do you actually notice a slower turn in, or has it been suggested, so you think it is turning slower.

A 190/55/17 rear tyre, makes your steering angle steeper already, by lifting the back. Lower the front further and run the risk of having asphalt for dinner.

[idleidolidyll]

seeing used race tyres on trademe has got me thinking if i can run them on the road? is it legal?

Or would they be better used at the dragstrip?

thanks my home bois of kb!

It's only illegal if they catch you.

'Race tyres' is a bit of a misnomer nowadays: it can mean slicks or sticky proddie style tyres. Slicks are illegal but lotsa fun; proddie tyres are usually almost buggered by the time you buy them but most are quite legal.

Forget the usual crap about warmup etc: I've found that slicks like Pirelli Superbike tyres warm up just as well as my road tyres. Just be very wary of 'blue' tyres. These may be cooked and if so, will be like riding on roller skates.

Most race tyres are run at low pressures on the track to get em really sticky. Probably best to start at low and work up rather than the other way around. I'd say 30 psi front and 34 psi rear on a 600cc Jappa solo riding. Check em after a bit of a thrash and they should be warm and sticky.

Of course, if you're gonna use em on the road, I take no responsibility for your actions...................

[sinfull]

Correct pressures however are absolutely critical.

That and dampening/suspension settings

To counter the slower turn in I will drop the front ride height a little and then it will be about as perfect handling as it has ever been.

I am converted.

Insure your bike before you steepen it up aye. Enjoy the front wheel tuckin under when it happens.

Tell me, do you actually notice a slower turn in, or has it been suggested, so you think it is turning slower.

A 190/55/17 rear tyre, makes your steering angle steeper already, by lifting the back. Lower the front further and run the risk of having asphalt for dinner.

I'm with Drew on this one !
Hold off with the dropping of the trees till ya ridden it a bit more through some windies !
Going from 180 to 190 on the 6" rim i didn't notice that much, but spooning a 190 onto a 5 1/2" it increased the tip in speed because of the increased curve in the contact patch, it also increase the work your doin when it came to flicking it back and forth through a chichane on a heavier bike !
You might be mistaking a heavier feel for slower tip in !
Make your way slowely to the edge of the tyre lol

It's only illegal if they catch you.

'Race tyres' is a bit of a misnomer nowadays: it can mean slicks or sticky proddie style tyres. Slicks are illegal but lotsa fun; proddie tyres are usually almost buggered by the time you buy them but most are quite legal.

Forget the usual crap about warmup etc: I've found that slicks like Pirelli Superbike tyres warm up just as well as my road tyres. Just be very wary of 'blue' tyres. These may be cooked and if so, will be like riding on roller skates.

Most race tyres are run at low pressures on the track to get em really sticky. Probably best to start at low and work up rather than the other way around. I'd say 30 psi front and 34 psi rear on a 600cc Jappa solo riding. Check em after a bit of a thrash and they should be warm and sticky.

Of course, if you're gonna use em on the road, I take no responsibility for your actions...................

Tis a hell science to it, i'm finding it hard to keep getting the head around it !
So i'm gonna use your post Idle as an excuse to write it down again !
That way if anyone with more knowledge wants to they can teach me more, as i love constructive criticism

Done a track day on a road tyre (sport attack) brilliant for 90% of the day then as i warmed up so did the tyre, 2nd to last session and was pushing it ! No warning bam it let go- hell slide turning into a near highside
two things learnt that day were, sport attack/road tyre = great till they over heat (designed to operate at lower temps) then no grip / dont button right off in a slide !

where as the conti race attack let ya know by giving a little before letting go and the metz racetech moreso (usually after the 2nd or 3rd race/track days), thats when they should come off the track bike (more often happens with the competitive guys lol) so if ya know the racer ya got em off and believe them, that its/they have only done 2 heat cycles and 20/40 laps, ya got a good deal, cause ya sure to get another good number of heat cycles out of em on the road before they start to deteriorate !
Depending on HOW you ride on the road the tread depth will usually have ya throwing them before you notice a lack of grip due to heat cycle deterioration (like if ya do the paekok hill every day for a couple of months and work em)

Running the metz racetech (not slicks) on the road now and though i aint taken down the km to keep track of the k's, i have left the suspension on the speed 3 cranked to a rider sag of under 30mm and dampning on its firmest (dampning is crap on the trumpies anyway) to make the tyres work to get heat in em and keep it there ! Haven't changed a thing since taking it off the track in fact
Think the recipie for a wet track is to decrease the preload by 5 or 6 mm and decrease the compression dampning, to allow more travell so as to stop wet slides under hard acceleration so there must be a happy medium there (which touch wood i seem to have found though i don't ride hard in the wet)

All tyres have different operating temps and as i found out ya can overheat, but then ya tyre can also stay too cold, ya need find out the op. temp of the tyre your putting on and use things like pressures preload and dampning to govern the correct operating temp for that tyre depending on your style of riding !
So taking a thermal temp guage for a ride would be the optimum !

Yeah aye ! head....ache....need...,panadol.... awwww beer will do !

[Brett]

Insure your bike before you steepen it up aye. Enjoy the front wheel tuckin under when it happens.

Tell me, do you actually notice a slower turn in, or has it been suggested, so you think it is turning slower.

A 190/55/17 rear tyre, makes your steering angle steeper already, by lifting the back. Lower the front further and run the risk of having asphalt for dinner.

Thanks for the advice, will investigate this further...The bike does feel heavier, however you are right, this could be psychological...I will take it for a good run a bit later on and see how it actually feels...however, will note that the front end is providing excellent feedback and is currently sitting at the factory height at the front.
I did have Shaun look over the suspension a few months back and he really noted that only the rear needed tweaking as the sag was far too much.

[Brett]

That and dampening/suspension settings




I'm with Drew on this one !
Hold off with the dropping of the trees till ya ridden it a bit more through some windies !
Going from 180 to 190 on the 6" rim i didn't notice that much, but spooning a 190 onto a 5 1/2" it increased the tip in speed because of the increased curve in the contact patch, it also increase the work your doin when it came to flicking it back and forth through a chichane on a heavier bike !
You might be mistaking a heavier feel for slower tip in !
Make your way slowely to the edge of the tyre lol


Tis a hell science to it, i'm finding it hard to keep getting the head around it !
So i'm gonna use your post Idle as an excuse to write it down again !
That way if anyone with more knowledge wants to they can teach me more, as i love constructive criticism

Done a track day on a road tyre (sport attack) brilliant for 90% of the day then as i warmed up so did the tyre, 2nd to last session and was pushing it ! No warning bam it let go- hell slide turning into a near highside
two things learnt that day were, sport attack/road tyre = great till they over heat (designed to operate at lower temps) then no grip / dont button right off in a slide !

where as the conti race attack let ya know by giving a little before letting go and the metz racetech moreso (usually after the 2nd or 3rd race/track days), thats when they should come off the track bike (more often happens with the competitive guys lol) so if ya know the racer ya got em off and believe them, that its/they have only done 2 heat cycles and 20/40 laps, ya got a good deal, cause ya sure to get another good number of heat cycles out of em on the road before they start to deteriorate !
Depending on HOW you ride on the road the tread depth will usually have ya throwing them before you notice a lack of grip due to heat cycle deterioration (like if ya do the paekok hill every day for a couple of months and work em)

Running the metz racetech (not slicks) on the road now and though i aint taken down the km to keep track of the k's, i have left the suspension on the speed 3 cranked to a rider sag of under 30mm and dampning on its firmest (dampning is crap on the trumpies anyway) to make the tyres work to get heat in em and keep it there ! Haven't changed a thing since taking it off the track in fact
Think the recipie for a wet track is to decrease the preload by 5 or 6 mm and decrease the compression dampning, to allow more travell so as to stop wet slides under hard acceleration so there must be a happy medium there (which touch wood i seem to have found though i don't ride hard in the wet)

All tyres have different operating temps and as i found out ya can overheat, but then ya tyre can also stay too cold, ya need find out the op. temp of the tyre your putting on and use things like pressures preload and dampning to govern the correct operating temp for that tyre depending on your style of riding !
So taking a thermal temp guage for a ride would be the optimum !

Yeah aye ! head....ache....need...,panadol.... awwww beer will do !

Yep I hear you guys, gonna rideit a bit more as I am probably wrong. I did notice the change in tyre geometry and the physics says that with a steeper tyre profile, corner transition is going to be quicker. I guess I hadn't thought that through initially. The only physics I have to back up my "feeling" on the bike is that the 190 tyre will be heavier and thus will have greater gyroscopic force, however I doubt that this is great enough to be noticed...by me anyway.

[Drew]

The only physics I have to back up my "feeling" on the bike is that the 190 tyre will be heavier and thus will have greater gyroscopic force, however I doubt that this is great enough to be noticed...by me anyway.

I dont think anyone would notice the effects of such a small weight differnce.

The geometry changes seem pretty small, but make big differences in how the bike behaves.

Pretty simple maths to figure out how much the rear is lifted with the new tyre. 55% of 180mm = 99mm. Add to that the rim size, 433mm (17"), = 532mm

55% of 190mm = 104.5mm, adding rim = 537.5..

By changin to the wider tyre, the rear of the bike now sits 2.75mm higher.

Doesn't seem a lot, but I know from experience on the track, that it changes things dramatically.

[Cajun]

that maths only really works if you are going from same tyre just going up a size

I know going from pilot power 180/55 to a conti race attack 190/55 the rear has gone up a good amount than 3mm, due to the more triangle profile of tyre.
Noticed this on my 600, with 5.5" rim, and also rsvr 6" rim

[Drew]

that maths only really works if you are going from same tyre just going up a size

I know going from pilot power 180/55 to a conti race attack 190/55 the rear has gone up a good amount than 3mm, due to the more triangle profile of tyre.
Noticed this on my 600, with 5.5" rim, and also rsvr 6" rim

Yeah, when I chucked a 190/55 conti on the back of the Ducati, from a 180/55 something else I had a massive off, turn 1 at Puke.

Knew the bike was too steep from it tucking like a mongrel, but didn't think to come in and change the ride height.

[Deano]

So now that is all sorted, who wants a pair of 2nd hand (but still warrantable) supercorsa SC2's 160/17 ?

[JayRacer37]

My appologies, I hadn't even thought of the Conti's. They are shit on the road, period.

Your just mean!

Loads better. The Conti race attacks, not the street version, are designed to run at really low preasure. The stiff side wall allows the carcas under the tread to flex more without upsetting stability. Great idea, if you've got a bike set up for it to work, (stiffer spring, and shit loads of damper setup).

The race Street is really good on the road (for fast riding, perhaps not really commuting and wet - although the ones on my ZX-7R have been pleasantly suprising). The RaceAttack Comp In Soft or Medium is OK - you just have to up the pressures quite a bit as you arn't running warmers so you need to get the pressure in them without the heat. They still won't get to a decent operation temprature but they will hang on ok and will be (IMO) far nicer than a sports-touring tyre (ie Pilot powers). Just bear in mind (and this goes for all brands of DOT racing tyres, not just Conti's) that you are using them outside of what they are intended for so they might not be the best (bit like motards really...)

Well I am gonna try a set of the Super Coarses, probably about 80% worn, no blueing and just general race wear, best set I could find. Will let you guys know how they go. Only frustration is the the tyre is a 190 and my gsxr has a 5"5 rim which is designed for a 180...so will see how it goes.

The 190 will be great, all the 600SS racebikes still have 5.5in rims and we are all running 190/55's as they give a bigger contact patch at lean and grip really well. They also make the bike easier to turn of center because of the triangulated profile.
As others have said above just be careful with your geometry and feel - it will change it, not a lot but a little is all it takes sometimes to make all the difference!

Jay

[Drew]

Your just mean!



The 190 will be great, all the 600SS racebikes still have 5.5in rims and we are all running 190/55's as they give a bigger contact patch at lean and grip really well. They also make the bike easier to turn of center because of the triangulated profile.


Jay

I heard at the nationals, Nick was running a Dunlop rear of some sort, 205 section. That's unreal!

[JayRacer37]

I heard at the nationals, Nick was running a Dunlop rear of some sort, 205 section. That's unreal!

Nick who?

If thats the case...how? There certainly isn't a 205 section Dunlop DOT tyre "Avalible to the public"...

[Robert Taylor]

It's only illegal if they catch you.

'Race tyres' is a bit of a misnomer nowadays: it can mean slicks or sticky proddie style tyres. Slicks are illegal but lotsa fun; proddie tyres are usually almost buggered by the time you buy them but most are quite legal.

Forget the usual crap about warmup etc: I've found that slicks like Pirelli Superbike tyres warm up just as well as my road tyres. Just be very wary of 'blue' tyres. These may be cooked and if so, will be like riding on roller skates.

Most race tyres are run at low pressures on the track to get em really sticky. Probably best to start at low and work up rather than the other way around. I'd say 30 psi front and 34 psi rear on a 600cc Jappa solo riding. Check em after a bit of a thrash and they should be warm and sticky.

Of course, if you're gonna use em on the road, I take no responsibility for your actions...................

With respect to pressures for race tyres that is so out of touch, very bad advice. The year is 2009.
Are you even remotely aware of what hot tyre pressure should be on N-Tec Dunlops?