Need some gear advice...

[jono035]

Impact ? Mehhhhh nah !
If ya look at both leather and cordura it is easier to stuff lots of armour in to cordura and well hey, if it's an impact i know i'd like as much as possible !
But still i wear a basic jacket with no armour on the road !!! Why ? Well i guess my road leather is my road leather, shit i go out for dinner in it !!!

I possibly could have worded that better, I meant impact resistance in the sense that I've seen a lot more people mentioning having had seams split during a spill with cordura than leather, so it sounds like the leather gear holds up better when you hit the road, allowing it to protect you better afterwards.

[Laxi]

having seen a mate put a couple of holes in his brand name cordura along with a minor case of road rash in a 45k drop, I serriously wonder how good cordura is, any gear I buy from now on is going to be leather

[cambridgedan]

well i had cordura gear and then i came off and the gear disintegrated basically so i cant imagine what would of happened to it if i had come off at a higher speed, so im in all A-star leathers now, but i guess if you get a really good cordura you would be sweet, one advantage is its easier to get on and off than leather but I dont rate it very highly in a sliding along the road situation and im not planning to testing my leather out haha

[sinfull]

I possibly could have worded that better, I meant impact resistance in the sense that I've seen a lot more people mentioning having had seams split during a spill with cordura than leather, so it sounds like the leather gear holds up better when you hit the road, allowing it to protect you better afterwards.

Yep ! I did realise that and thought of sending ya some bling to that effect but ya would have missed that anyway !
More use of your quote to air my views bro !

[jono035]

Yep ! I did realise that and thought of sending ya some bling to that effect but ya would have missed that anyway !
More use of your quote to air my views bro !

No worries

[sinfull]

well i had cordura gear and then i came off and the gear disintegrated basically so i cant imagine what would of happened to it if i had come off at a higher speed, so im in all A-star leathers now, but i guess if you get a really good cordura you would be sweet, one advantage is its easier to get on and off than leather but I dont rate it very highly in a sliding along the road situation and im not planning to testing my leather out haha

So your off was a slide where your gear fell apart ?
Tell ya what i do now if i'm doing any miles in winter is wear my cordura (xxl) with no liner over my leather and by christ i'm warm !
(still wouldn't want to hit nothin as i have to take the armour out for it to all fit !)
But then if i hit sommit it's at speed and i'd pick a slide past it if i could, so would prolly be toast anyway !
Finds a log to touch !

[cs363]

The biggest problem with a textile versus leather thread is that many people don't actually know which materials are which - Cordura is a DuPont brand that many people mistakenly use to describe all textile gear. Unfortunately many of the cheap jackets and pants you see around particularly on Trademe and low end products at bike shops are invariably made from Nylon or Polyester fabric, which whilst light and comfortable is barely better than cotton for abrasion resistance.

Basically if the garment doesn't have DuPont branded hang tags stating that the garment is made with Cordura then it probably isn't. Even with Cordura itself there can be differences as can be seen here: http://www.motoport.com/save-your-hide and the majority of textile gear using Cordura is in the 500-600 denier range so the majority of Cordura gear is close to leather for abrasion resistance but falls behind in tear resistance. 1000 denier Cordura on the other hand equals leather's tear resistance and exceeds it's abrasion resistance, though as it is a heavier weave fabric makes for a less flexible garment and greater weight.

Even with leather there are huge differences in quality, for instance many if not all of the low end jackets on the market are made from Buffalo hide (Water Buffalo as found in India & Pakistan as opposed to those big tough beasties in the US) and whilst no motorcycle gear is made from the full hide thickness (top quality gear is usually made from top or full grain leather (the outer skin) whilst lower quality gear is made from split grain leather (the layers split from below the top grain) buffalo and cow hide have similar abrasion resistance but cow hide has a higher tear resistance, as does top grain over split grain.
Then to add further confusion there is Kangaroo hide which is stronger and more flexible than cowhide for less weight and also offers greater abrasion resistance and therefore a favourite for race leathers etc., deer leather is one of the toughest leathers yet is still very supple, as is pigskin. Sheep leather is soft and supple but tears very easily and so it goes on.
Even the way that leather is tanned can make a difference to it's strength.

Kevlar is probably the toughest 'textile' available, though it is very expensive and not the easiest material to work with, but there are limited numbers of products available made purely from Kevlar cloth.

Anyway, without prattling on for ever, as you can see there are some huge variables that most people seem to gloss over either from ignorance or perhaps because it doesn't suit their argument.
The main thing I would say is that when comparing highly technical products such as motorcycle gear, make sure you compare apples with apples and if buying gear do your homework on the product and what it's made from - don't be scared to ask questions or even get the guy in the shop to ask the manufacturer/distributor etc.

The same arguments apply with waterproof gear - Gore-Tex is a brand that is universally acclaimed as the best in it's field (which is why it usually carries an warranty independent from the garment) and is not a term to describe all waterproof/breathable membrane products, again if the gear doesn't have Gore-Tex branded hang tags then it most likely isn't Gore-Tex. Some companies do a reasonable substitute for Gore-Tex and some work better than others, look for companies that stand behind their gear. In most cases these substitute membrane products are heavier and don't breathe as well as genuine Gore-Tex with the trade off being a lower purchase price.

Hope this helps clear up some of these points for the uninitiated.

[jono035]

The biggest problem with a textile versus leather thread...

Thats a ton of info there, thanks. I think for the most part cordura is used to refer to any 800 denier textile, but that is definitely something that should be mentioned to anyone looking to find some gear.

[Quasievil]

I recieved some samples on Friday which is claimed to be Cordura 600 denier blah blah blah its the same shit that is sold on trademe, frankly Im going to bury it as garbage which is what it is, Or I could always sell it as TM members do as a high end high quality Jacket for $135.00.

You get what you pay for always have and always will.

if you want something that will be safe and of quality you need to spend the dollar.

[smoky]

I have a Dry Rider cordura jacket, and a couple of leather ones.

If you come off wearing leather it won't grab the surface as easily as cordura, (apparently), leather allows you to slide, if your gear grabs on the road it can fling you about and result in a bit more damage to limbs.

I bought the Dry Rider jacket for days when it's wet - however I now have a very nice leather jacket that seems to be just as water resistant, warmer and looks better.
It was about $900, but the best jacket I ever had

[discotex]

Possibly worth the upgrade?

Yes for weekend rides/trackdays/etc where you'll be over 50km/h a lot of the time.

If so, How does it fit?

It should fit like a second skin for maximum protection.

Does it have room for work clothes underneath?

Nope, if it did your leathers would be way too loose.

is it hard to get on?

A good set of leathers should be skin tight but not so tight they're hard to get on and off. An undersuit helps get them off when it's hot (sweaty leathers sick to your skin). http://extremeracing.co.uk/ ship to NZ in days.

will I look like a douche with my neck warmer sock thing?

Probably

If I get rained on will I get wet?

Yes, especially if you have perforated leathers (little holes to let the air flow through).


I own a 2pc leather suit and codura gear and I commute in codura over winter. It's just way less hassle. The biggest difference is that I can chuck it over my clothes and then just peel off a layer once I get to work.

In summer I commute in jeans (often kevlar lined ones) and leather jacket.

Always have my gloves and boots on as I like my fingers and toes.

[Sparky Bills]

Come and see me at Motomart in Lower Hutt mate.
Ill put you in both and you can choose which you like best.
Leather is far safer as far as protection goes. They both have their Pros and Cons though.

Cheers
Martin

[cs363]

Thats a ton of info there, thanks. I think for the most part cordura is used to refer to any 800 denier textile, but that is definitely something that should be mentioned to anyone looking to find some gear.

No worries Although, you will find that way too many people use the term Cordura for ANY woven nylon fabric of any denier, only a few minutes ago I was looking at a website based in Hamilton that was quoted in another thread (Not Quasi's!) where they were advertising Cordura jackets and pants that were quite obviously not Cordura, in fact at the price quoted I would bet a decent wedge that they were polyester which is nasty stuff if it gets into a sliding/heat generating situation as it will melt into your skin...yuck!

I recieved some samples on Friday which is claimed to be Cordura 600 denier blah blah blah its the same shit that is sold on trademe, frankly Im going to bury it as garbage which is what it is, Or I could always sell it as TM members do as a high end high quality Jacket for $135.00.

You get what you pay for always have and always will.

if you want something that will be safe and of quality you need to spend the dollar.

Yeah, agree totally - any high tech garment purporting to be made out of high tech fabric (that requires expensive R&D, branding and so on) is going to come at a price. Amazing how many Pakistani, Indian and other Asian manufacturers claim to have these high tech products, some even going as far as falsifying labels and hang tags etc. (Bear in mind that copyright and Trade Marks etc are virtually non-existent and extremely hard to enforce in some of these countries).
Update - I see I'm a bit out of date regarding ownership of Cordura, DuPont have since sold the brand to Koch Industries and it is now manufactured by their subsidiary Invista.
If in doubt whether the garment you are buying is using genuine Cordura (or Gore-Tex, 3M etc) probably worth dropping an email to the manufacturer.

I have a Dry Rider cordura jacket, and a couple of leather ones.

If you come off wearing leather it won't grab the surface as easily as cordura, (apparently), leather allows you to slide, if your gear grabs on the road it can fling you about and result in a bit more damage to limbs.

I bought the Dry Rider jacket for days when it's wet - however I now have a very nice leather jacket that seems to be just as water resistant, warmer and looks better.
It was about $900, but the best jacket I ever had

The trouble with DriRider gear is that most if not all of their Cordura gear is 500 denier at best, so as can be seen from the link in my previous post you are correct regarding it's qualities in regard to that brand. Note that 620 or higher denier Cordura has equivalent or better abrasion (sliding) qualities than leather. It should be mentioned that leather needs to be very well cared for to maintain these qualities, old dry, cracked leather for instance will not perform to the same level.
Also, on the subject of safety - if riding in the winter particularly an uninsulated leather jacket is probably more dangerous than a warm textile jacket at least in a passive safety sense because a cold rider will have reduced mental faculties which could lead to a crash (http://www.usc.edu/CSSF/History/2003/Projects/J0312.pdf)

As those that care will see, there is a lot more to buying good, safe gear than meets the eye.

[smoky]

Note that 620 or higher denier Cordura has equivalent or better abrasion (sliding) qualities than leather.

That's why they let you use it on the race track - don't they?
Why don't I believe that

It should be mentioned that leather needs to be very well cared for to maintain these qualities, old dry, cracked leather for instance will not perform to the same level.

It should be mentioned; so does any thing you buy to wear

Also, on the subject of safety - if riding in the winter particularly an uninsulated leather jacket is probably more dangerous than a warm textile jacket

And conversly; riding in the winter in an uninsulated textile jacket is probably more dangerous than a warm leather jacket?

For the record, my leather jacket is warmer and more comfortable than anything I've ever had

And lets face it - leather has way more street cred.
The only reason people don't buy leather is cause they don't have the money or fashion sense and don't like woman looking at them

[jono035]

The only reason people don't buy leather is cause they don't have the money or fashion sense and don't like woman looking at them

Leather would have cost me only slightly more than the textile stuff I bought... I bought it because it was waterproof by itself, would be wearable over clothes allowing me to ride to work/uni, and would be warmer by itself due to both of the above issues. I have the money, I see the appeal in the fashion and I'd enjoy having women (I assume you meant to use the plural?) looking at me as I rode by, but bought cordura.