Settling Maori claims. Someone explain.

[Mr Merde]

...., I can trace my family tree back one thousand years to the viking raids in England. ....

My younger sister has traced my famly line back to the year 605 AD in Ireland. Thats an unbroken line going back 1,405 years.

She is busy compliing it in a form where we can recite it as and when needed.

I wonder how long it will take to recite. A few hours I expect. This is my whakapapa.

[Finn]

It will never end in NZ - too many weak people in this country!

You are quite correct. The Schools & Universities will continue to indoctrinate and keep the money train huffing and puffing and Governments who don't really give a crap about the early settlers will be mindful of losing too many votes.

[Swoop]

I'd just like to mention one word that has been missing from this thread...

BEER.

[Bonez]

I'd just like to mention one word that has been missing from this thread...

BEER.

Light or dark?

[Finn]

Light or dark?

DPB Brown. It's like DB Brown but with P.

[idleidolidyll]

Actually, capitalists defend property rights.

Thats one of the basics of capitalisim.

Oh dear, once again Mr Reid shows us he does not understand what capitalism actually is.

FYI again and again and again: Capitalism is a system in which capitalists control the means of production. A capitalist is not necessarily someone with a million bucks. A capitalist is someone who lusts after power and uses their capital to corner the power even to the extent of dictating to governments and subordinating the will of the people. In this modern world, capitalists control through currency manipulation, banking manipulation, free trade, international fraud and lies (ie., pharmaceutical, oil and cigarette companies); the list goes on.

Capitalists have only ever 'protected' property rights after they've stolen them from other people or taken advantage of others poor situations (sometimes through manipulation) to buy at firesale prices. Usually, prior to their ownership of property, they do whatever they can to make it easy for them and their mates to take control, THEN they protect THEIR property rights.

Socialists and Communists on the other hand, do not defend property rights ... the individual or familys right to own property or land is subjugated to the state.

And again he does it, that's communism indeed but it's not necessarily socialism. The trouble is you don't understand the terminology but I don't blame you; you have sucked down a lifetime of capitalist propaganda.

The reason we have a mess today is nothing to do with capitalisim, and eveything to do with confusion, and (maori) racisim.

Ha! ha! That's hilarious. The West (Brits) initially came to NZ to make money and to take a land off its indigenous people as they had in the past in order to make money and control the inhabitants: capitalism it was

To put it more simply, maori who had land seized illegally, have every right to use legal process (capitalist law) to getthe land back and or be paid for it.

I have no problem with that. I'd like to see the decendents and families who profitted from those crimes pay back the money or give back the land without burdening the rest of us with the cost of their crime or their pofit of crime.

But, they like to claim and do stuff that has nothing to do with ownership and eveything to do with race.

Ah but so do Maori. Dummest shit on the news this week? Parakura Horomia saying Maori should only give joibs to Maori. If a Pakeha had sais white people should only give jobs to white people; the shit would have hit the fan.

They feature on the telly saying "I'm tangata whenua, I don't need to pay my mortgage" and "This is Tuhoe land - fuck off - oops leave the dole cheque over there".

That's a good point. If Maori want sovereignty the ball is in their court to show how it would work and continuing to take with both hands is not gonna convince anyone.

They like to think that there is such a thing as reverse racisim. Sadly, once you stand up and say "I'm different, I'm maori", people remember. Particularly if you are different in a criminal sort of way.

Racism exists whatever race you come from. IMO a lot of the Maori party statements are racist as was Horimia's above. Ditto for Pakeha racists like Hyde

[idleidolidyll]

Ouch! Direct hit right to Idle's nuts. Good work.

Hey look, my stalker's flatulating again.

[idleidolidyll]

Well history has proven a number of things,

Yes indeed the excesses of capitalism are not very pretty, reason unchecked greed.

And yes indeed the excesses of unchecked socialism / communism are equally unpretty. Reason, unchecked greed or a thirst for total control.

I remember in Britain a certain Neil Kinnock and his wife were always decrying the fruits of capitalism and the trappings of political power. Now both he and his wife have very cosy jobs courtesy of taxpayers. HYPOCRITES.

You and I are polar opposites politically but I also believe have a sense of fairplay. Its all about balance.

Oh dear, Mr Taylor, like Mr Reid shows his lack of understanding again.

To paraphrase Marx: Socialism is an area between the excesses of fascism and communism.

Fascism: extreme right wing capitalism
Communism: State dictated collectivism

Next thing will be some noddy plonking on about the 'Left Wing Media': HILARIOUS!

I challenge the two to think harder and find the truth behind the propaganda they have sucked down all their lives

[James Deuce]

At least the Fascists can get the trains running on time.

[wbks]

My younger sister has traced my famly line back to the year 605 AD in Ireland. Thats an unbroken line going back 1,405 years.

How the fark did she do that?

[Finn]

Hey look, my stalker's flatulating again.

Don't flatter yourself deadbeat.

If you put half your energy into cleaning yourself up and getting a job instead of dedicating your time making yourself look like a freak, we would all be better off.

[Robert Taylor]

Oh dear, Mr Taylor, like Mr Reid shows his lack of understanding again.

To paraphrase Marx: Socialism is an area between the excesses of fascism and communism.

Fascism: extreme right wing capitalism
Communism: State dictated collectivism

Next thing will be some noddy plonking on about the 'Left Wing Media': HILARIOUS!

I challenge the two to think harder and find the truth behind the propaganda they have sucked down all their lives

Your use of the word HILARIOUS is so frequent that its not funny anymore.

In fact I know enough about facism and communism to have worked out that in practice they operate similarly. A ruling elite living the high life and subjugating their people with fear. Etcetera.

You can go on believing the socialist propaganda that suits you best. And Ill be just as happy believing in the principles of compassionate conservatism. The silly thing is we believe in some of the same ends eg a fair days pay for a fair days work, equal opportunity, level playing fields etc. You may have noticed that some of my comments on the BGW thread are disparaging of this new trend that will directly impact on the security of employees within the NZ motorcycle industry.

I have just as much contempt for the worlds bankers, how they dictate to governments, their obscene bonuses etc. But then I also have similiar contempt for lifestyle welfare and all the lazy pricks in the world who think they are owed a living etc. And yes things have to change but full blown socialism is not the answer.

[Robert Taylor]

You are quite correct. The Schools & Universities will continue to indoctrinate and keep the money train huffing and puffing and Governments who don't really give a crap about the early settlers will be mindful of losing too many votes.

Back in the early seventies when I was at high school 6 of my teachers were paid up members of the local Labour party and were very active in it. I remember having a stand up argument with one of these teachers who at the time was livid about Gough Whitlam being forced to resign as Australian priminister. He predicted that at the next election Malcolm Fraser would lose by a landslide, when it so didnt happen I reminded him of his outburst. That was sweet.
There is nothing worse than a fully blinkered argumentative and emotional socialist.

[Indiana_Jones]

Only one man can fix this

-Indy

[scracha]

on land that really wasn't theirs, they worked hard and made a life but as I understand were enticed to NZ with false information from the English in the first place.

Are you sure it wasn't theirs? The majority of early settlers purchased land legally and fairly. This is conveniently forgotten? Later on land was sometimes (Waikato, Taranaki, etc) unfairly confiscated.

Many were enticed to NZ for the same reason they buggered off to the Americas....they were starving or essentially had a very shit life. The English weren't the only punters here either.

Your speil about "the crown" losing a war is based on what?. The war was well AFTER the treaty. NZ was effectively the wild west and "the crown" were just as concerned about protecting Maori as the French, English, Scottish, Irish, American, Dutch and other settlers. Otherwise they wouldn't have given them the same legal rights as British subjects. I think many people get confused differenciating "the crown" from "The New Zealand Company".

Now who owns the South Island?

Well over 150 years and we're all still arguing. Time to put it to bed methinks and look towards the future. Maybe a new treaty should be signed.