Settling Maori claims. Someone explain.

[James Deuce]

Are you sure it wasn't theirs? The majority of early settlers purchased land legally and fairly. This is conveniently forgotten? Later on land was sometimes (Waikato, Taranaki, etc) unfairly confiscated.

.

Err, no actually. The NZ Company sold land that wasn't theirs to sell. They also sold rolling meadows to Scandinavians that was actually dense sub-temperate rainforest, and so on and so on.

[idleidolidyll]

Err, no actually. The NZ Company sold land that wasn't theirs to sell. They also sold rolling meadows to Scandinavians that was actually dense sub-temperate rainforest, and so on and so on.

indeed they did, capitalist theft not much different from the massive capitalist crimes of today where the taxpayer pays for the rich to keep the proceeds of theft

[idleidolidyll]

Don't flatter yourself deadbeat.

If you put half your energy into cleaning yourself up and getting a job instead of dedicating your time making yourself look like a freak, we would all be better off.

a job?

what, like NZ Sales Manager?

ha! ha! losers like you should give up stalking and jerking off in public and go find another friend

[idleidolidyll]

Your use of the word HILARIOUS is so frequent that its not funny anymore.

Not to you and I understand why; you continue to suck down the same tired propaganda and refuse to look into the reality beyond it

In fact I know enough about facism and communism to have worked out that in practice they operate similarly. A ruling elite living the high life and subjugating their people with fear. Etcetera.

That's actually dictatorship an/or oligarchy. it's what happens when a system is corrupted by greedy people hungering for power.
Once they have taken over and corrupted the system into their personal or elite subjugate system it is not what it used to be; that is the lesson you seem not to have grasped yet. Given that capitalism is a system in which the wealthy elite control most everything and that socialism is one where the people retain control; it's most likely to happen in capitalism as this is first and foremost a system that rewards greed

You can go on believing the socialist propaganda that suits you best. And Ill be just as happy believing in the principles of compassionate conservatism. (ha! ha!, what a fucking joke!, conservatism by name and nature is an intolerant political belief.) The silly thing is we believe in some of the same ends eg a fair days pay for a fair days work, equal opportunity, level playing fields etc. You may have noticed that some of my comments on the BGW thread are disparaging of this new trend that will directly impact on the security of employees within the NZ motorcycle industry.

wonderful 'You can go on believing the socialist propaganda that suits you best' a non statement if ever there was one; a blunt club instead of an arrow and a statement that tells me again that you really don't know what you are talking about

I have just as much contempt for the worlds bankers, how they dictate to governments, their obscene bonuses etc. But then I also have similiar contempt for lifestyle welfare and all the lazy pricks in the world who think they are owed a living etc. And yes things have to change but full blown socialism is not the answer.

so you say but isn't it strange how you continue to be fooled by the system you think helps you.

"full blown socialism is not the answer" another non statement; what is "full blown socialism"?
Given that Marx identified socialism as the middle ground between extreme communism and extreme fascism, it would seem that your statement is as empty of thoughtful consideration as it is of fact

[scumdog]

so you say but isn't it strange how you continue to be fooled by the system you think helps you.

"full blown socialism is not the answer" another non statement; what is "full blown socialism"?
Given that Marx identified socialism as the middle ground between extreme communism and extreme fascism, it would seem that your statement is as empty of thoughtful consideration as it is of fact

IdleX3 on full-blow!!

[wbks]

so you say but isn't it strange how you continue to be fooled by the system you think helps you.

"full blown socialism is not the answer" another non statement; what is "full blown socialism"?
Given that Marx identified socialism as the middle ground between extreme communism and extreme fascism, it would seem that your statement is as empty of thoughtful consideration as it is of fact

Ok, this isn't a wise-crack, simply a question from someone who is simple and lost when it comes to all these systems that I've never read about... So you say socialism is one where the people are in control, and capatalism is the wealthy elite controlling everything for themselves... But in examples of socialism, compared to capitalism, it seems the opposite? The general state of life in capitalist areas are better from rich to poor than socialist examples

[James Deuce]

Ok, this isn't a wise-crack, simply a question from someone who is simple and lost when it comes to all these systems that I've never read about... So you say socialism is one where the people are in control, and capatalism is the wealthy elite controlling everything for themselves... But in examples of socialism, compared to capitalism, it seems the opposite? The general state of life in capitalist areas are better from rich to poor than socialist examples

There are no Socialist Governments anywhere. It's simply too difficult to get societies to work for each other instead of themselves.

[wbks]

There are no Socialist Governments anywhere. It's simply too difficult to get societies to work for each other instead of themselves.

Hence the term I used: "Socialist Examples". "N.A.Z.I"

[James Deuce]

There've been no socialist states.

Fascism is the ultimate expression of Capitalism.

[davereid]

indeed they did, capitalist theft not much different from the massive capitalist crimes of today where the taxpayer pays for the rich to keep the proceeds of theft

Strange you blame the capitalists for the theft of land in New Zealand.

Maori actually petitoned the brits for the treaty.

Why ?

Because the worlds first socialist nation (France) was claiming, and taking land all over the world by force, without even considering the "rights" of the natives.

They kept on using force to take land elsewhere for decades.

[idleidolidyll]

Ok, this isn't a wise-crack, simply a question from someone who is simple and lost when it comes to all these systems that I've never read about... So you say socialism is one where the people are in control, and capatalism is the wealthy elite controlling everything for themselves... But in examples of socialism, compared to capitalism, it seems the opposite? The general state of life in capitalist areas are better from rich to poor than socialist examples

the start of the problem is that people think that there are only two ideologies and therefore they are opposite.
there are in fact many more and you'd do well to think of the political spectrum as liberal/authoritarian as well as left/right.

Most people fall inside the extremes and if you study the actions of people and parties instead of the words, you'll see that propaganda is universal.

Take the test and see where you lie but don't look at any of the comparison charts until you do. Then compare yourself with parties and people in and outside NZ.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/index

[wbks]

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -4.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.23 So what does that make me?

[Robert Taylor]

Well the world is full of hypocrisy! Just take a look at what is happening in England with MPs expenses, the worst perpetrators are the ruling but soon to be electorally annihilated Labour party.
Thankfully there is hope yet, the poms have invented synthetic sperm. With all of the other medical advances they will be able to create another Margaret Thatcher.
Dont lecture me about socialism Ignoramuslefty, Ive seen plenty of the damage created by that mentality over the 50 plus years Ive been around. Capitalism with appropriate controls is fine by me, and demonstably by most reading this thread and all of your previous verbosity reference the subject.
Of course if we dont subscribe to your version of propganda then we are doubtless all ignorant hicks.

[popelli]

Of course if we dont subscribe to your version of propganda then we are doubtless all ignorant hicks.

or racists

[scracha]

Err, no actually. The NZ Company sold land that wasn't theirs to sell. They also sold rolling meadows to Scandinavians that was actually dense sub-temperate rainforest, and so on and so on.

Another misrepresentation. Yes, the NZ Company sold SOME land that was not theirs to sell. The MAJORITY of land was sold fairly and squarely. The MAJORITY of the land the NZ Company sold unfairly was given back/recompensated back in the 19th century. A lot of poor cunts who'd travelled from Ireland/Scotland/England/France/Canada/America got the land they'd purchased (rightly or wrongly) taken off them and were not compensated. A lot of confiscated land during the Maori Wars had been fairly and legal bought by both Maori and non Maori. I'm not against the Waitangi Trubunal process but it should have an end date and it should also be compensating both sides. The treaty was for all New Zealanders.

And Dr Bob, Maggie Thatcher got as corrupt and evil as any other politician after her first term in office.