New format for clubmans.

**mossy1200** · 9th July 2009, 19:49

There is alot of fresh and good ideas floating arround with changes to classes.
Everyone has ideas and thats good for progress of the sport.
Post classic seems to be a target for change but the biggest problem is im not convinced its broken,damaged or needs changed.
Post classic is a play ground for those who like to maintain and race against other bikes of equal tech and performance.
Every race has races within racers and guys battle for every point.

The idea of a newer generation of bike that cant compete with the latest and greatest bikes is great.lets be honest a 1998yzf just isnt in the same league as a 2008r1.

Clubmans bike run around the track with no champ points and no real purpose.
the guys in clubmans that want to show every meeting would surely rather have an overall championship to set their sites on.I may be wrong.

Would it not make sence to split them into pre 2000 and after 2000 and give them champ points.

In my opinion this gives an entry level comp and sets the scene for slightly older f1 f2 f3 bikes to be sold into a hungry market.This brings new guy and gals in and alows for more affordable upgrades at the top end of the sport.
If the new classes become popular enough they will end up running two individual races(eg too many entries).That would be good aswell at some point in the future.

My defination of postclassic is time period racing of older generation bikes(eg carb big bangers and screaming little rippers).If we start adding newer generation machines we risk knocking away the tail of the field who have put time and effort into their higher maintence labour of love race machine.

**Deano** · 10th July 2009, 09:08

IMO this is the best idea yet.

**t3mp0r4ry nzr** · 10th July 2009, 09:17

awesome, if we can avoid the burglers who are after a 'post 2000' championship title.

**Kiwi Graham:Me** · 10th July 2009, 09:46

Out of little acorns grow mighty oaks!

Ace idea

**Deano** · 10th July 2009, 09:57

Originally Posted by t3mp0r4ry nzr

awesome, if we can avoid the burglers who are after a 'post 2000' championship title.

"I burgled Clubman's"....where's my trophy.

(No disrespect, but it is an entry level class for beginners)

Actually, Pete Tanner and Griz burgled Clubmans at the Nats a couple of years ago

**Sonykid** · 10th July 2009, 09:59

I think you are kind of missing the point of Clubmans racing.
Surely Clubmans is for people who are just starting out racing, or for riders that are just out for some fun on uncompetitive equipment.

A Championship, although it would be nice to have, would ruin the nature of Clubmans and attract guys looking for the title who should really be racing in the other classes. I have just started racing in Clubmans this year after doing 2 rounds of the PMCC Summer series and it is interesting to see that already 3 of the guys I started out with have moved up to Supersport because there was nothing to race for in Clubmans and they wanted to learn more, the idea of a Clubmans Championship would have seen these guys stay which would not have benefited the class as they were already quite a bit quicker than the average guy.

The splits proposed of post 2000 and pre 2000 would make no difference to the racing as far as I can see as most of the guys I am racing against are on post 2000 equipment and how is it fair that a 2000 RG150 has to race against a 2008 R1 for a championship? I know which bike I would choose for my Championship bid.

I think that the bigger problem is for the guys on F1 class bikes like Speed triple, KTM Superduke, Aprilia Tuono etc, bikes which are quite competitive in Clubmans (I still get taken out on the straights by early model GSXR and modern Supersport bikes which lots of people are on) but have to step up to F1 when they leave Clubmans and ride against the modern litre bikes and well set up Supersport machines.

Lucky then that I am only racing for the enjoyment and weekend fun and I will enjoy getting the Clubmans podiums while they last.

Nice to see someone having a think about making our sport better. Well done that man.

**sinfull** · 10th July 2009, 10:13

Originally Posted by Sonykid

Lucky then that I am only racing for the enjoyment and weekend fun and I will enjoy getting the Clubmans podiums while they last.

Nice to see someone having a think about making our sport better. Well done that man.

In all honesty i think that idea would give ppl with the bikes you mentioned something to race for and still be fun for those who do it for fun (untill a naked class hits the scene) And like has been mentioned there will be those who want to sell their bike after learning a bit of race craft and move into the classes !
There has to be an entry level ! We all know clubmans can be, shall we say less than the safest class around, but it is still the entry level !
I say promote the shit out of it !
Soooo can i come back now ????

**Sonykid** · 10th July 2009, 10:19

Originally Posted by sinfull

Can i come back now ????

NO...... Ha ha ha.

**Sonykid** · 10th July 2009, 10:31

Sinfull,

It would be fun for me and a couple of other guys who would be in with a chance but I am not sure you can have Championships where there is such a huge difference in the performance of the bikes. It will only achieve 3 things.

1. Encourage higher expenditure on equipment and upgrades in the learner class where theses things should not be an issue and the emphasis should be on learning, fun and growing the racer base.

2. Encourage riders on good equipment or with great skill to stay in the learner class when the idea of Clubmans is as a feeder class to the formulas. The lack of a Championship is an incentive to move on. These riders are also known as Burglars.

3. Stroke the ego's of the "Championship Winners" and devalue the status of a Championship win. "I won the Clubmans championship on an ex Andrew Stroud 1ltr bike and all the other loosers where on SV650's"

And no you still can't come back!

**sinfull** · 10th July 2009, 10:52

Originally Posted by Sonykid

Sinfull,

It would be fun for me and a couple of other guys who would be in with a chance but I am not sure you can have Championships where there is such a huge difference in the performance of the bikes. It will only achieve 3 things.

1. Encourage higher expenditure on equipment and upgrades in the learner class where theses things should not be an issue and the emphasis should be on learning, fun and growing the racer base.

2. Encourage riders on good equipment or with great skill to stay in the learner class when the idea of Clubmans is as a feeder class to the formulas. The lack of a Championship is an incentive to move on. These riders are also known as Burglars.

3. Stroke the ego's of the "Championship Winners" and devalue the status of a Championship win. "I won the Clubmans championship on an ex Andrew Stroud 1ltr bike and all the other loosers where on SV650's"

You forget that the clubs still have the cut off point and most will know when they are close ! Either they will slow down and stick with having fun there or up grade the machine and move up (which as Mossy said will bring more bikes into the game) You can't tell me you aint looking at bikes to upgrade to ! With an eye to racing them ?

Originally Posted by Sonykid

And no you still can't come back!

Awwwwww (will find out on the 25th if i'm even at the cut off point yet lol) But no, i wouldn't go back, i'm able to do twice the racing i ever could in C/M (if the old bones would just let me lol) And it aint all that scary in the classes ! If it ever came to a point where the 115% cut off came into effect and i was told i was to be moved down to C/M (another reason C/M is there) my pride wouldnt be hurt either, hehe give me the perfect opportunity to come whoop your arse !

**WarrenW** · 10th July 2009, 12:18

SonyKid you are right on the mark, this is exactly the reasons behind the Vic Club removing points from the Clubmans class! The idea is that we want to encourage them to step up to a class where they can get meaningful results and not stay and win just because they can against learners.

Clubmans and Post Classics will no doubt remain the way they are for the forseeable future because they are a formula which works. All the people that have old bikes that do not qulaify for Posties will either need to upgrade like everyone else does to keep current or wait until their bike comes into a new era of posties (likely to be in about 7 years time). Or race in clubmans where there is no encouragement to be at the sharp end of the feild.

It's a simple formula that works. Don't mess with it.

**kittytamer** · 10th July 2009, 12:54

Originally Posted by WarrenW

It's a simple formula that works. Don't mess with it.

Totally agree.
I'm learning big time in Clubmans with no pressure or expectation. And the goal isn't to win the 'championship' but to learn enough to be quick and more importantly, safe enough to move into a proper class (F2 in my case).
This year hopefully...

**KS34** · 10th July 2009, 13:12

Maybe there is just too higher expectation on winning!, Most bikes will fit into a class. For example I will be running a K6 gixxer 750 in some winter series rounds in the superbike class, I know I wont win but I know I'll have fun. I think we also have to remember alot of the winning is done with your top 2 inches not the bike. The more people that run in classes not exactly designed for their bike ie me or older bikes helps everyone fit in. What I mean is if there are a few older 1000 and some 750's the field will be bigger and there will be more competition to race against at the different levels within the class. And what joy you get when you kick the arse of a newer or bigger capacity bike!!

**Sonykid** · 10th July 2009, 15:00

Originally Posted by KS34

Maybe there is just too higher expectation on winning!, Most bikes will fit into a class. For example I will be running a K6 gixxer 750 in some winter series rounds in the superbike class, I know I wont win but I know I'll have fun. I think we also have to remember alot of the winning is done with your top 2 inches not the bike. The more people that run in classes not exactly designed for their bike ie me or older bikes helps everyone fit in. What I mean is if there are a few older 1000 and some 750's the field will be bigger and there will be more competition to race against at the different levels within the class. And what joy you get when you kick the arse of a newer or bigger capacity bike!!

I think you are totally right here and I need to remember, along with others, that unless we are top 5% guys, talent and bike wise, we are all there for the fun and the competition.

I would much rather have a great 3 bike battle at the back of the F1 feild than be running around in first or second, 15 seconds from another bike in Clubmans. But for the mean time I just need to keep working on the race craft.

**roogazza** · 10th July 2009, 15:55

Originally Posted by kittytamer

Totally agree.
I'm learning big time in Clubmans with no pressure or expectation. And the goal isn't to win the 'championship' but to learn enough to be quick and more importantly, safe enough to move into a proper class (F2 in my case).
This year hopefully...

Proper class, PROPER CLASS ! I'm still working on my race craft thanks. G.