Flags, colours, and their use

[MSTRS:Me]

Thank you, HerB4.
Point of order...If there is continued fall out over this 'incident', and this thread gets used for 'evidence', it is important to note that the rider was not on the outside of the track, until he crossed just after Point 7. He was on the right hand side of the track in the normal clockwise direction of travel. That means he was on the inside of the track.

I don't know whether a situation like this one has come up before, but can only assume that it has. There is nothing new under the sun. The flag system and it's rules has been developed over many years in response to, and anticipation of, problems. I can only guess that if it's happened before, then the marshal/s and rider/s have 'got it right', and MNZ saw no need to adjust the rules to include this rare use of a red. Or whatever. Perhaps it's time they did?

At a guess, if this situation has happened before, then all points were asked to display a red, in which case riders would slow and return to the pitlane grid. Also in which case, the fluid leaking bike would still spread it's nastiness around the track. Is it possible that officials in this case wanted to avoid that long-distance spread? And in this particular case, with respect to the class, experience, speed and spread of riders and in the absence of any other suitable flag/rule, opted to go with the individually targetted red? Sometimes, if a situation warrants it, commonsense should over-ride rigid rules.

[FROSTY:Me]

You CAN'T have Black Flag with the Orange Dot and a number system at every flagpoint. Read the Rule Book. Stop suggesting it.

We had a situation and tried to deal with it. It failed. The Red flag was the only weapon in the arsenal. We were out-gunned...

m not SUGGESTING anything here skunk ol son Im OFFERING to supply a BLACK flag for every marshalpoint. In other words Im offering to supply a viable solution to the issue if you are happy taking it.
The FANTASTIC thing about this situation is that it at extremly low cost in life and machinery has highlighted a possibly deadly issue.

As an aside and not being a smart ass here -my 5 year old knows and understands the meaning (in kid terms) of ALL the BASIC flags.
Green---means GO
Red means STOP
Yellow means -BE CAREFUL
BLACK means NAUGHTY -get off the track
Blue Means Get outa the way.
White means last lap
Black n white means YOU WON
The more complicated flags he struggles with except the red cross--AMBULANCE


I know this is over simplification but I figure that a young racer jazzed up on adrenalin has the effective mentality of a 5 year old so it may be relivant.

[Skunk]

m not SUGGESTING anything here skunk ol son Im OFFERING to supply a BLACK flag for every marshalpoint. In other words Im offering to supply a viable solution to the issue if you are happy taking it. [/I]

Sorry Frosty. What I mean is we can't. The MNZ rules say so.
We are only allowed the Black and the Black and Orange at the Chief Flag Marshals point.

The Ambulance one is an example - The ambulance doesn't go onto the track until racing stops. When racing stops everyone comes into the pits. So why do we have an Ambulance flag? So the Ambulance knows it's on the track?

[MSTRS:Me]

Sorry Frosty. What I mean is we can't. The MNZ rules say so.
We are only allowed the Black and the Black and Orange at the Chief Flag Marshals point.

Thought so. Is there sufficient likelihood of this situation arising again? I'd say so. In which case, some method of effectively isolating a single bike, and getting him off the track is going to have to be worked out. And included in The Rules™.

[Skunk]

Shoot out his tyres? Throw stones (there seem to do a few qualified stone throwers here)?

He broke the 'Park it' rule. End of story. We shouldn't need a flag.

It will happen again. It's happened in the past. The joy of running a Race Meeting I guess.

[MSTRS:Me]

Shoot out his tyres? Throw stones (there seem to do a few qualified stone throwers here)?

He broke the 'Park it' rule. End of story. We shouldn't need a flag.

It will happen again. It's happened in the past. The joy of running a Race Meeting I guess.

Stress at Rider's Briefing that a bike problem means pull off track to a safe place (as directed by a marshal?) - at least until problem can be identified, perhaps?

[Skunk]

Read the rule book at riders briefing

"Riders briefing will start at midnight outside the track gates - all riders must attend"

[MSTRS:Me]

Hook up transponders to the bike's kill switch, and a track control panel?

[FROSTY:Me]

All good Skunk--But I think you will find that a BLACK flag can be displayed elsewhere. Yes it SHOULD have the riders number by it but what the hey. At Tech perhaps the a little bit of emphasis needs to be placed on the phrase --If you see the BLACK flag waved-MOVE OFF THE RACEING LINE and procede to the pits.

[MSTRS:Me]

All good Skunk--But I think you will find that a BLACK flag can be displayed elsewhere. Yes it SHOULD have the riders number by it but what the hey. At Tech perhaps the a little bit of emphasis needs to be placed on the phrase --If you see the BLACK flag waved-MOVE OFF THE RACEING LINE and procede to the pits.

Perhaps. Then you might as well hang out the Red at all points. Doesn't address the problem of an oil dripper...who won't get off the track when signalled.

[FROSTY:Me]

sorry mate NO--a RED says one thing a BLACK says something totally different. Again in Kid talk -Red--DANGER ahead Black YOU have been naughty. Quite rightly I would react differently to the two flags.

[Tony.OK]

Sorry Frosty. What I mean is we can't. The MNZ rules say so.
We are only allowed the Black and the Black and Orange at the Chief Flag Marshals point.

Call me old and blind....................ya couldn't direct me to which chapter thats in?

[MSTRS:Me]

sorry mate NO--a RED says one thing a BLACK says something totally different. Again in Kid talk -Red--DANGER ahead Black YOU have been naughty. Quite rightly I would react differently to the two flags.

I hear what you are trying to say...but neither flag means get off the track - where you are - right now. They simply request you leave the track at the next offlane opportunity.

[Ivan]

There is of course the MNZ rule that states that if you cannot continue at race pace (which he was not) park the bike.

He broke that rule fair and square.

Sorry not being picky but I thought this was a club rule only that the Vicclub made.

Which in my opinion is an awsome rule I just didnt think it was an Official MNZ rule sorry if it is but I know the rule if you cant run park it.

[quickbuck]

Sorry not being picky but I thought this was a club rule only that the Vicclub made.

Which in my opinion is an awsome rule I just didnt think it was an Official MNZ rule sorry if it is but I know the rule if you cant run park it.

The "Park It" Rule... Well, um, who determines a safe place to "Park It" on the race track?
There will always be a danger as soon as there is a parked vehicle on the track, and then obviously Yellow will be waived.....

In this case... well, may not be this one, but when the qualifying is SERIOUS this really means end of session, until danger is cleared.
Obvious really, as imagine if you were Rossi on your Qual lap, and somebody decided to park their bike track side, this means yellow right?
Then obviously NO OVERTAKING... So there goes the Hot Lap if Mr Rossi comes upon somebody on their cool down.

Another problem with the Park It rule... What happens if somebody bins and hits the parked bike? Worse than a 40 minute oil clean up I bet....

And many more posts on KB too I suspect.....

BUT just to contradict myself, it (the park it rule) does have a benefit for running a very tight schedule, and giving more than 3 classes one race each...
We are at club level after all.

The racers and Marshals have to do a good think about where they put the broken bike when using the park it rule... Which I'm sure they do/will....

Still comes back to how DO we tell the rider his bike has had a major failure?
I guess in this incident more experience may have helped.... May have...

There will alway be "this one time" though...