Hells Angels are not a gang...

[Conquiztador]

1. I am concerned that a by-law like this is identifying a handful of targets (see the email apperently from Stuart Hylton). Who has decided what "gangs" are not to wear their patch in Wanganui? This reeks of segregation based on someones personal view. Patch based apartheid?

2. By removing someones patch you do not change that person. If he/she was a criminal the criminal element in him/her is not attached to the patch.

3. If Wanganui has problems with criminal activity of any sort, then surely that should be addressed not by banning patches but by targeting the criminals and stopping their activities with means police already have.

4. I do understand the intimidation factor that gang patches create in many. And I can see what Laws is trying to do. In his simple world "out of sight out of mind" applies. But this is a knee-jerk reaction from a desperate man who has run out of ideas. There is already more then enough laws (excuse the pun) that the police can use to cater for this. Why not try to provide a feeling of saefty for the pensioners by having a higher police presense in town. Get the police to walk the streets, to say "nice day today" to the old ladies and to pop in to the local shops for a friendly chat while walking the street. Go back to the basics and become a part of the community again.

5. Any action creates a reaction. It is like a game of chess. Now the "gangs" will reply. The HA has already started their by fighting it using their lawyers. If this comes a sa surprise to Mr Laws, then he has seen nothing yet. Internationally HA has some of the most brilliant minds working for them. And they can afford it. Like it or not, they are protecting their rights of freedom.

It is with interest I (and the rest of NZ) will follow the developments. The old ladies of Wanganui might be appauding Mr Laws "courage", but when the costs are starting to build and the problems that all this will cause is starting to mount, the only looser will be the current mayor. Money that should be used to improve Wanganui is being wasted on lawyers and court cases. He is putting the nails in to his own coffin.

[nadroj]

Let's organize a KB get together in Wanganui and walk down the main drag all wearing tiddly winks club t-shirts!

I'm sure Shane & Wayne would see the funny side & join us.....

[kiwifruit]

For every person who has a nice thing to say about the gangs, theres 1000 victims of there rapes, murders, drug dealing, theft, assaults, extortion, kidnapping, shooting, gun running etc etc. They are a highly organised, structured and well financed international franchise in crime and terror

We are all victims of this, we have to pay more in taxes for those who are put in jail, the extra police they tie up with investigations, the people they put in hospital, the drug addicts they produce, the lives they ruin and require the social welfare system to look after.

Your bike insurance, car insurance, house insurance is higher because they set up and cultivate organised theft rings.

Sure they put on a good ride or BBQ now and again but thats just PR and a potential recruiting drive, not to mention a great chance to launder some ill gotten funds. Hitler threw good parties, as did stalin, and they had there fans to.

Insisting on calling themselves a motorcycle club is from direct orders from the US chapters, they are desperately trying to beat the powers of RICO that there high powered lawyers, corrution and intimidation just cant beat.

Am I scared of the gangs? Of course, im not stupid and have seen there "effect" on innocent people more times than Id like to remember, theres thousands of them which thrive in a climate of violence and intimidation and have no qualms about ruining peoples lives at a whim. For money, for a power trip, for shits and giggles or just because they have nothing better to do.

But yeah, defend there freedom to continue to keep going the way they are, the last thing we would want to do in this country is disrupt criminal activity.

Don't be absurd, the hells angels, and other groups of motorcycle enthusiasts (head hunters, highway 61, black power, mongrel mob etc), are just a bunch of family orientated guys that get together to ride and talk about bikes.

[gwigs]

Making it work could be a problem...imagine two cops on duty ......fifty mob members...."Take off your patches or we will arrest you......
Mob reply....

[P38]

Making it work could be a problem...imagine two cops on duty ......fifty mob members...."Take off your patches or we will arrest you......
Mob reply....

Actually I believe the Meter Maids in Wangavegas can issue a fine for breaches of this by law.

[Zuki lover]

NO THEY ARE A GROUP OF TOSSER

[davereid]

Nah we are cool Dave
The Ulysses is welcome in Wangas. I wrote to the Council asking about our badge and this is the head honchos reply.
Ok here it is straight from the horses mouth.
The Ulysses Club Badge "IS WELCOME" in Wanganui.
Stuart Hylton has replied to my email as below.
Stuart is the Senior Policy Advisor/Deputy Manager for the Wanganui District Council.

Hi Peter

Your members will be pleased to know that they are not affected by the recently passed Prohibition of Gang Insignia Act in Wanganui. Here is the wording from the Act which specifically names gangs that are implicated by the prohibition by reason that they are or have been associated in unlawful activities within the District and their presence including wearing of gang patches is likely to be intimidating to residents in public places.

A tongue in cheek way of saying that an organisation is not necessarily equal to the sum of its idiots

In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,—
gang means—

(a) Black Power, Hells Angels, Magogs, Mothers, Mongrel

Mob, Nomads, or Tribesmen; and

(b) any other specified organisation, association, or group

of persons identified in a bylaw made under section 5

Hope this clarifies matters. We look forward to your members enjoying another awesome boxing day motorcycle racing this year in Wanganui.

Regards

Stuart Hylton

Thanks for that Pete.

Personally, over 40 years I have collected 18 convictions for assault, (including three for assaulting a police officer, but it was bullshit he and his pals were trying to give me a ticket and deserved it, anyway it was assaulting three poice officers) and a not guilty for attempted murder (the cunt asked for it).

I'm still staunch, so the bash is never far away for wankers.

Its nice to know its not going to be associated with my patch when I deliver a bit of justice, or do some idiot taxing.

I also like the idea that my individual actions will never cause the rest of the club a problem, based on a council committee reading a report on me and a couple of the other lads while I'm a member of the club.

After, all, I've paid up my club membership on the cheap deal, where you get it cheap by buying 10 years membership in advance. And I never bash club members, even if they are plonkers. Cos thats against the rules.

A tongue in cheek way of saying that an organisation is not the sume of its idiots.

[cc rider]

Is this the first time the Law has been challenged in NZ?

[SixPackBack]

Not worried about any of them, to some point they can all be reasoned or worked with.

Yeah that would be one wishful and excessively naive belief. Much like gangs 'reasoning' with any government official comes down to luck of the draw. Try reasoning with psycho ginga in Hazzard County or the IRD and get back to us.

[Winston001]

Is this the first time the law has been challenged in NZ?

Various councils in the past have tried to create and enforce bylaws (local laws) to ban patches and fortified gang headquarters. None of them worked - unenforceable or ultra vires ie. not proper council bylaws.

This particular law however was passed by Parliament so is properly made and enforceable......maybe. One problem is it is directly contrary to the Bill of Rights 1991, but they'll have thought of that.

Interesting case.

[AD345]

Laws like this are more than the result of a failure to enforce existing laws.

They arise due to a collective failure on the part of all segments of a society. As many others have pointed out there are a myriad of laws already in place that can deal with anti-social, or intimidating or violent behaviour. The existing laws seem, however, to have not achieved the desired result (undefined). "Police don't enforce the law!" we cry, "Politicians are gutless" we wail.

When was the last time we (you, I, anyone) got off our arses and made a complaint for the police to act upon? Or, even more to the point, spoken out to the individuals concerned that their behaviour is unacceptable?

Yes yes - a fear of violent retaliation tends to inhibt some civic-mindedness, but other opportunities do go unremarked. We don't want to be busybodies, nosey parkers, narks, wusses etc. Live and let live.

is it any wonder then that in such a climate when there is a (perceived) chorus of complaint attended by little personal action that legislators resort to crafting laws that require no complaint and can be acted upon as and when available resources allow.

It is discriminatory, ad-hoc, arbitrary and quite possibly the thin end of the wedge (most totalitarian states start with majority approval).

It is what we asked for.

We reap as we have sown.

[Conquiztador]

Laws like this are more than the result of a failure to enforce existing laws.

They arise due to a collective failure on the part of all segments of a society. As many others have pointed out there are a myriad of laws already in place that can deal with anti-social, or intimidating or violent behaviour. The existing laws seem, however, to have not achieved the desired result (undefined). "Police don't enforce the law!" we cry, "Politicians are gutless" we wail.

When was the last time we (you, I, anyone) got off our arses and made a complaint for the police to act upon? Or, even more to the point, spoken out to the individuals concerned that their behaviour is unacceptable?

Yes yes - a fear of violent retaliation tends to inhibt some civic-mindedness, but other opportunities do go unremarked. We don't want to be busybodies, nosey parkers, narks, wusses etc. Live and let live.

is it any wonder then that in such a climate when there is a (perceived) chorus of complaint attended by little personal action that legislators resort to crafting laws that require no complaint and can be acted upon as and when available resources allow.

It is discriminatory, ad-hoc, arbitrary and quite possibly the thin end of the wedge (most totalitarian states start with majority approval).

It is what we asked for.

We reap as we have sown.

Who is this "we"? I certainly do not feel part of this "we".

[peasea]

Various councils in the past have tried to create and enforce bylaws (local laws) to ban patches and fortified gang headquarters. None of them worked - unenforceable or ultra vires ie. not proper council bylaws.

This particular law however was passed by Parliament so is properly made and enforceable......maybe. One problem is it is directly contrary to the Bill of Rights 1991, but they'll have thought of that.

Interesting case.

It is and will probably continue to be.

One thing is for certain; the Hells Angels aren't stupid and I doubt they'd be betting money on a nag at the Kentucky Derby. Homework will already have been done and in some respects you have to hand it to them; rights are rights and so many people don't know their own, or if they do they won't stand up for them.

Life is full of grey areas and every so often things need to be tidied up, the air cleared or whatever. It might just be that now is the time for New Zealand to define what's right and what's wrong when it comes to attire.

Personally I hope they ban stubbies and leopard-skin jackets.

Where are Trinny and Suzannah when you need them?