What do you think the "drinking age" should be?

[Rayray401]

Your not kiwi? drinking moderately within ones limits should be encouraged, because it can be a relaxant or a nice beverage to go along with a social event/occasion.

nope...not kiwi XD and yeah thats what i mean by educating the young ones more...

and QUOTE: If your old enough to be an adult your old enough to buy everything thats for sale at a shop!

have all the alcohol outlets run by the govt. so we don't have so many places surrounding us selling alcohol. In Canada its run by the govt and theres only 2 places in small cities to buy alcohol and the odd hotel. ]

Thats what taiwan used to have....because there were so many 'fake'/cheap alcohol so they restricted the trading of alcohol and smokes and heavily taxed them...and this is heavily taxing...like a 60-80% taxing...so alcohol was hard to get hold of by anyone and everyone

[oldrider]

At what age do you think it should be legal for New Zealanders to buy alcoholic beverages?

Personally, I don't think there should be an age limit at all....BUT.....

.....there should be more police and anyone who fucks with the law gets hammered but good.

More Police: backed up by a decent Law society, Justice system and Corrections department!

They should stop restricting and punishing law abiding citizens and really punish those who actually break the laws!

If any law proves to be infective for it's purpose, get rid of it!

There are currently too many stupid laws and insufficient police to police them effectively! (I feel sorry for our unsupported "good cops")

That disgraceful situation is backed up currently with a shonky Law society, inefficient choked up Justice system and a corrections department run by and for the criminals, no wonder crime pays, only in New Zealand!

Labour would never fix this problem and I am only hopeful that this (National lead) lot might do something but not holding my breath. Rant over!

[slofox]

I run a wine shop. So I am at the coalface. Although there is a major difference between my store and a "liquor outlet". I call it a fine wine store but in fact most of my trade is as the "local neighbourhood wine shop".

First, I concentrate on wine and I sell quality not quantity. I have a huge range of wine from all over the world.

I also sell specialist beer (NZ microbrewery product like Tuatara, Moa, Three Boys, Wigram, Renaissance, Emersons, Dux de Lux etc) plus imported product from Belgium and the UK when I can get it. I have a small "convenience" range of some NZ commercial product.

I also sell a lot of Single Malt Whisky and a little bit of other spirits.

I sell very few RTD's and I do not sell them cheap. The limited range I stock is there for the convenience of those who need them for a function. I have been known to remove certain lines from display when one of the local drunks started to come in to purchase them and then drink them outside the shop and get shitfaced.

I police age very strictly and have been known to ID people who are well over the legal age if I am unsure. Better sure than sorry. I would like to have the law a little more on my side by putting some blame on the underagers if they even stick their nose in my door. Having said that, I have very few young ones come in because of the profile that the store presents.

Changing the age of purchase would have little or no impact on my sales. Nor would changing the hours I could open since I am not open particularly late anyway. Given what I see in Hamiltron, I don't think having a different age for on and off premise makes much sense. Here, most of the drunks roll out of the bars in the small hours of the morning.

I put a pretty fair markup on my products. I don't have the privilege of subsidising my alcohol sales with a grocery business like the supermarkets do. Get rid of cheap alcohol from these guys and we might start getting somewhere. Sure they have stopped selling below cost, but they still sell at 5% GP and I could never afford to do that. Supermarkets have a lot to answer for with those low margins. What they are doing, in fact, is using an addictive product, sold cheaply, to promote their core business. This, IMHO, is totally unethical and should be stopped.

I agree with those who raise the point of the attitude NZ has towards alcohol. We come from a "dry" background (British) where alcohol is essentially frowned upon but allowed under certain conditions. Contrast this with a "wet" background as in much of Europe and countries with a history of European (not British) settlement, where alcohol is part of everyday life. It is the old "forbidden fruit" syndrome. Invest something with a taboo and it will become attractive and develop its own mystique. Make it a part of everyday life and that is less likely. Many years ago we billeted a young high school rugby player from Argentina. When their visit was coming to a close, there was a party organised by the local lads. The Argentine boys were appalled at the attitude of the local lads towards getting shitfaced. None of the Argentine boys were remotely interested, but the locals were. Background attitude made the difference. In Argentina there was no mystique. Here, there was.

So how do we change that attitude? Frankly I don't know. Even if we could do it, it would take at least one generation and more likely two or three. Dickering with the rules as we are doing now is purely window-dressing, designed to win votes. It will make sod all difference to those who hang around outside liquor stores in hoodies and dark glasses (to quote Dean) looking for a chance to get smashed.

[davereid]

So how do we change that attitude? Frankly I don't know. Even if we could do it, it would take at least one generation and more likely two or three. Dickering with the rules as we are doing now is purely window-dressing, designed to win votes. It will make sod all difference to those who hang around outside liquor stores in hoodies and dark glasses (to quote Dean) looking for a chance to get smashed.

Really good post.

For whatever reason, New Zealanders like to get wasted. A massive rise in the price of alcohol may reduce consumption, but those who want to get wasted will still afford it.

The most likely result of puting the price of alcohol up, will be a migration to other cheaper and more easily accessed drugs.

Its naive to assume that a young person has $50 to spend.. so pricing alco-pops at $7 each will mean a nice un-intoxicated teen.

The reality is, for $50, the modern teen can get access to drugs with names that I can't even spell.

[Swoop]

Our society really needs a tidy up!...

A very good post Oldrider.
I have been thinking the same recently. Driving skills are at the top of the list followed closely by booze culture and gambling (pokie machines).

As a nation, it will take a great deal of pain in the short term to "adjust" the mentality prevalent in society.

[hellnback]

So how do we change that attitude? Frankly I don't know. Even if we could do it, it would take at least one generation and more likely two or three. Dickering with the rules as we are doing now is purely window-dressing, designed to win votes. It will make sod all difference to those who hang around outside liquor stores in hoodies and dark glasses (to quote Dean) looking for a chance to get smashed.

It's a lost cause.... I'm going out to get shitfaced....

[slofox]

It's a lost cause.... I'm going out to get shitfaced....

I rest my case...

[popa griffin]

I work at a bar and i find that most people who start fights and the like are over 20 but under 25 exceptions to the rule ofcoarse.

Either this is because people under 20 cant afford town, or just dont drink as much.


Also, you see alot of people who are fine in the clubs. sitting down drinking, But then they stand up and go outside and as soon as they hit the cold air they get insta-drunk. Its quite funny to watch.

I find its mainly the problem with young people under 18, who get booze from older siblings, perants or randoms. Who cant get into town, so gate crash a party, drink stupid amounts and start smashing shit.

[Deano]

I found the biggest cause/catalyst of fights in pubs was pool tables and women (combined with alcohol of course).

[popa griffin]

I found the biggest cause/catalyst of fights in pubs was pool tables and women (combined with alcohol of course).

Most definatly woman, only had one fight in the 2 years i have worked at a club where our pool cues got used.

And, the tough guy wanna-bes who have something to prove to no one to be cool.

[oldrider]

I found the biggest cause/catalyst of fights in pubs was pool tables and women (combined with alcohol of course).

Didn't start fights when I was a youngster but found out I enjoyed finishing them, so joined a boxing club.

Moral of the story, there is a time and place for everything!

Most people who drink and start fights do it because they are not very good at it, the piss boosts their ego and they turn into Superman!

[Deano]

And, the tough guy wanna-bes who have something to prove to no one to be cool.

Yeah, we came across this at Room with a Que on a TRTNR.

'They' tried to steal a leather jacket amongst other things. I suspect it was also racially motivated.

[Winston001]

Lots of thoughtful posts here. TBH I'm stumped. My reactionary nature says increase the age to 20 years.

I believe laws should be simple which is not what you have when one law says an 18yr old can buy liquor in a bar, but has to magically become 20 when they walk outside to the bottle-store. They are old enough to drink alcohol - then they aren't??

Still, this is a much deeper issue than simply age limits. Why do some people drink to intoxication? Why is it celebrated among their peers? Where do they learn this attitude from?

There's been a lot of research on alcohol - anyone have any links?

[Deano]

Why do some people drink to intoxication? Why is it celebrated among their peers? Where do they learn this attitude from?

Advertising has a part to play. And role models, (such as sporting heroes...rugby particularly - and we are such a big rugby nation) that aren't such good role models.

[slofox]

Where do they learn this attitude from?

From their elders, where else? How many of us don't have some story of how pissed we were on the night when etc etc etc....Part of the "rite of passage" for a kiwi lad...we have to change that is we are ever to change attitudes.