The Gummit sent me an envelope

[Street Gerbil]

Personally I have experienced both. My dad has given me some thrashings that would have landed him behind bars in a modern New Zealand. Imagine that: he actually applied a belt to my rear quarters when I deserved it. My mom was an opponent of that approach. She often boasted that she could put her children in their places without lifting a finger.

I am in a great relationship with my dad. He's done a great job of teaching me to stay out of trouble without the bubble wrap. My mom... I have not spoken to her for quarter century. I will never be able to get over the humiliation she has been subjecting me to. As for smacking... the pain goes away quickly, but the lesson sticks.

[Trudes]

It may be a big fat yawn to read all of these, but it really is quite interesting if you're actually interested.
Parliament debates and Readings of the Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Bill.
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/De...tification.htm
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/De...-Amendment.htm
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/De...-Amendment.htm
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/De...-Amendment.htm
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/De...tification.htm
http://www.parliament.nz/en-NZ/PB/De...-Amendment.htm

The Referendum
http://yesvote.org.nz/files/2009/04/...t-20090427.pdf
http://yesvote.org.nz/referendum/
http://voteno.org.nz/

[Magua]

http://www.parliament.nz/NR/rdonlyre...44_3929998.pdf

I found this to be a good summary document if you don't have the time for all the above links.

"We consider that there is widespread misunderstanding about the
purpose and possible results of the bill as introduced. We do not
consider that the repeal of section 59 will lead to the prosecution of
large numbers of parents and persons in the place of parents in New
Zealand. Nevertheless, for the sake of clarity, we have recommended
amendments to the bill to clarify that parents may use
reasonable force in some circumstances, but not for the purpose of
correction. We note that there are several potential offences directly
related to the care of children that are rarely prosecuted. Such an
example is if a caregiver sends a child to its room against its will,
this technically constitutes kidnapping under section 209 of the
Crimes Act. However, the police are not regularly prosecuting parents
for this. We consider that logic dictates the police will adopt a
similar approach to parents who use minor physical discipline following
the changes to section 59.
We do not believe that the changes we have proposed to section 59
of the Act will lead to a large increase in convictions or the removal
of children from their families for the use of minor physical discipline."

[scracha]

2 THINGS
on monday our Mr 13 had a total meltdown. F ing and blinding at his mother. He's about 60mm taller than her now. He made it clear that she couldn't hit him but if he chose to he could hit her --and no concequences.

You can still beat them up if it's self defence.

Seriously, if I'd so much as hinted at lifting a hand to my mother I'm pretty sure one of her mates would have seriously given me a (well deserved) kick in the teeth. A lot easier and cheaper than all this "bootcamp" bullshit too.

[PrincessBandit]

Kids are NOT miniature adults. If you look even at the animal kingdom babies and youngsters cannot expect "adult" status and rights.

With human beings there is also a natural "pecking order" whether people like it or not. Children DO NOT have the same skills, reasoning powers, ability to judge (actions and consequences) etc. as adults. Yes, we are raising FUTURE adults, but they have not achieved that status yet.

No, there is never any justification for beating the living daylights out of a child, and to do so just because you're bigger and can is abhorrent. But even children are savvy enough to know when the punishment is deserved, and the whole idea of punishment is to make it unpleasant enough so it's a deterent. Punishment which is effectively a non-event is a waste of time.

I'm a firm believer in being clued into what has the most impact on your children. For some it IS a physical smack. others it might be withdrawal of privileges. At school almost all students I've seen would rather have a detention ('cos then they're just hanging out with their mates half the time anyway) than have their precious mp3 player taken off them. I go for confiscation 100% of the time because I know it pisses them off the most!

Treated my children the same way. This meant that smacking could be reserved for the very worst offences, and didn't have to be used all that often.

[Mully]

very good post about common sense

But half the problem is if some do-gooding wowser sees you smack your child (having not seen the child try to run onto the road) and reports you to the Police.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the Police are the obliged to investigate if a complaint is made? Tying up valuable resources and frankly embarrasing the parents who, let's face it, have done nothing wrong.

[James Deuce]

What precisely is it saying Indy, bearing in mind that if you have to type out even the faintest interpretation of the question, you've failed to make your point?

[kit]

[QUOTE=Clockwork;1129341545]Since when did society think children should have the same rights as adults? Should we let them drive, marry or have sex, vote, own guns. Maybe we shouldn't compel them to go to school, maybe we should pay them the dole if they choose to opt out.



Damn Straight!!!!!!


The thing is its the principal of the matter.... The taking away of parental rights!!!! Most of nz signed a petition against this law...... but they went ahead with it anyway.....I thought we lived in a country that was a democrasy not a dictatorship! (obviously NOt) Some people choose to bring up there kids without smacking them, and some people choose to smack them, its all about the choice. It never hurt me, and it never hurt my daughter as a way to correct behaviour in a hurry.

This Law wont stop those people who beat their kids....is there a reduced rate in child abuse since this law has been brought in?