Tougher conditions tipped for teen licences

**CookMySock** · 9th August 2009, 12:37

It could soon be harder for teenagers to get a driver's licence.

A consultation document for a 10 year plan to improve road safety is to be issued later this month.

Transport Minister Stephen Joyce says raising the minimum driving age, making the restricted licence test tougher and increasing the length of time for learner licences will all be up for discussion.

He says he is not deliberately looking to raise the driving age, but young drivers are over-represented in crash statistics.

According to the Ministry of Transport, 37% of fatal crashes between 2005 - 2007 involved a driver aged from 15 to 24 years.

**from http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/storie...9/1245c18a4f9f

**Ixion** · 9th August 2009, 12:49

This is the Road Safety Strategy 2020 plan.

Young drivers are identified as a principle focus of the strategy - as the report (infra) notes.

So, also, are motorcyclists. You have been warned.

The Starategy will be open to public submission. You have the right to speak up in support of motorcycling. use it, or lose it.

**PrincessBandit** · 9th August 2009, 12:52

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

It could soon be harder for teenagers to get a driver's licence.

....

He says he is not deliberately looking to raise the driving age, but young drivers are over-represented in crash statistics.

According to the Ministry of Transport, 37% of fatal crashes between 2005 - 2007 involved a driver aged from 15 to 24 years.

**from http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/storie...9/1245c18a4f9f

Well, that's not too surprising really. I know back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I got my drivers licence you went straight into a Full with nothing but your commonsense and (hopefully) responsible parents to still guide you in your early driving endeavours. But we didn't have half the vehicle congestion on the roads, nor high powered speed machines we do today. Some older people can barely handle them, let alone young socially, emotionally and mentally under developed youfs.

**bogan** · 9th August 2009, 13:17

Originally Posted by DangerousBastard

It could soon be harder for teenagers to get a driver's licence.

A consultation document for a 10 year plan to improve road safety is to be issued later this month.

Transport Minister Stephen Joyce says raising the minimum driving age, making the restricted licence test tougher and increasing the length of time for learner licences will all be up for discussion.

He says he is not deliberately looking to raise the driving age, but young drivers are over-represented in crash statistics.

According to the Ministry of Transport, 37% of fatal crashes between 2005 - 2007 involved a driver aged from 15 to 24 years.

**from http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/storie...9/1245c18a4f9f

I have to wonder though, is it because they are young drivers, or because they are still learning to drive, if the age is raised then the new learner age may also be over represented in stats.
And its a little impractical to raise the driving age, young people will become too dependant on thier parents, harder to get jobs, especially in rural areas.

I do agree with the tougher tests idea though.

**wickle** · 9th August 2009, 13:46

Originally Posted by bogan

I have to wonder though, is it because they are young drivers, or because they are still learning to drive, if the age is raised then the new learner age may also be over represented in stats.
And its a little impractical to raise the driving age, young people will become too dependant on thier parents, harder to get jobs, especially in rural areas.

I do agree with the tougher tests idea though.

Would it not be better to limit learners to driving vechiles with lower out put similiar to motorcycles, raising the age is only going to restrict younger people further when applying for jobs (no licence ,no job)

**James Deuce** · 9th August 2009, 14:18

Originally Posted by wickle

Would it not be better to limit learners to driving vechiles with lower out put similiar to motorcycles, raising the age is only going to restrict younger people further when applying for jobs (no licence ,no job)

Yeah, I've heard this argument before. It holds no water.

The number and type of jobs that demand a license aren't as plentiful as they once were, plus the school leaving age has raised. The minimum driving age should follow.

Personally I think the minimum age for a license for a male should be 25, with the proviso that they are the parent of at least 2 children, otherwise the lowest age should be 30.

**bogan** · 9th August 2009, 14:22

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Yeah, I've heard this argument before. It holds no water.

The number and type of jobs that demand a license aren't as plentiful as they once were, plus the school leaving age has raised. The minimum driving age should follow.

Personally I think the minimum age for a license for a male should be 25, with the proviso that they are the parent of at least 2 children, otherwise the lowest age should be 30.

The number of driving jobs isn't huge, but I'm pretty sure all jobs expect you to actually turn up for work, which is a little hard if its a rural job, or you live out of town and have no license.

**James Deuce** · 9th August 2009, 14:27

Originally Posted by bogan

The number of driving jobs isn't huge, but I'm pretty sure all jobs expect you to actually turn up for work, which is a little hard if its a rural job, or you live out of town and have no license.

You're serious, aren't you?

I spent my time cycling to work and getting buses and trains, and I find myself doing it again 20+ years later.

I really don't give a toss how kiddies getting to work. It's part of growing up. Vehicle ownership and debt shouldn't be the default option for teenagers.

**p.dath** · 9th August 2009, 14:30

I wonder how many of those 37% of fatal accidents statistics also involved alcohol. I don't know, but perhaps the determining factor may not be just the age but the use of alcohol as well.

Perhaps maybe in reviewing the age limit for getting a licence we also look at introducing an alcohol limit of zero for those on a learner licence.

I think it might be an idea to make the age of eligibility to buy alcohol, get a drivers licence, and enter the armed services all be made the same ...

**CookMySock** · 9th August 2009, 15:28

I don't think they should raise the age limit. There are ways and means of making kids be careful on the road. I got my kid a license, a bike with a $7k loan, and a job to pay it off over three years, and NO insurance, and told him allllll about what will happen if he prangs it. You should have seen the tear in his eye, and do you think he was careful?? Oh FUCK yes he was careful alright - damn straight he was, or else he would have been working for three years to pay off a fucked up box of twisted steel and broken plastic, all the time nursing his wrecked leg or three.

Kids in shitbox cars that cost nothing, but with full comprehensive insurance in mums name are accidents just waiting to happen, and you know they will.

What if kids should be forced to have a named mentor on their license, and the mentor gets a hefty fine if the kid does wrong? That will keep the boot on the right foot. If no adult is prepared to put their hand up - no license!

Steve

**bogan** · 9th August 2009, 15:37

Originally Posted by James Deuce

You're serious, aren't you?

I spent my time cycling to work and getting buses and trains, and I find myself doing it again 20+ years later.

I really don't give a toss how kiddies getting to work. It's part of growing up. Vehicle ownership and debt shouldn't be the default option for teenagers.

It'd work in cities, but i grew up on a farm, had a number of jobs over 25km away, the first 5 of which was gravel. Do you expect people in that situation to cycle to work every day, rain snow or shine (theres no buses in the wops), it'd be an extra hour and a half commute every day.

Driving should be viewed as part of gaining independence, whether people learn at 15 or 25, theres always gonna be shit learner drivers. Unless there was compulsory advanced driver training or something like that, now theres a thought

Also, I like DB's mentor idea, simple and efficient.

**Babelfish** · 9th August 2009, 16:06

Feck the age, they should just raise the IQ required. If you've the nouse of lump of turd you shouldn't be able to drive. Said IQ should then be moulded through tougher training. Learning to drive and use a vehicle should be the same as learning to fly. And rather than just handing money back to govt for speeding or dangerous driving, the money should be used to retrain.

**James Deuce** · 9th August 2009, 16:20

Originally Posted by bogan

It'd work in cities, but i grew up on a farm, had a number of jobs over 25km away, the first 5 of which was gravel. Do you expect people in that situation to cycle to work every day, rain snow or shine (theres no buses in the wops), it'd be an extra hour and a half commute every day.

Driving should be viewed as part of gaining independence, whether people learn at 15 or 25, theres always gonna be shit learner drivers. Unless there was compulsory advanced driver training or something like that, now theres a thought

Also, I like DB's mentor idea, simple and efficient.

As I said mate, I don't care how the kiddies get to work. It's their problem.

My wife's Grandfather used to walk from Pahiatua to Masterton while he was courting. He'd leave on Friday night, go out on the town on Saturday in Masterton, and be back at work on the Monday morning at 4:30am. That would be their one weekend off a month.

Yes, I would expect someone to cycle 25km. I used to cycle 18 to my first job. It's not a big deal when you're young and fit.

**bogan** · 9th August 2009, 16:36

Originally Posted by James Deuce

As I said mate, I don't care how the kiddies get to work. It's their problem.

My wife's Grandfather used to walk from Pahiatua to Masterton while he was courting. He'd leave on Friday night, go out on the town on Saturday in Masterton, and be back at work on the Monday morning at 4:30am. That would be their one weekend off a month.

Yes, I would expect someone to cycle 25km. I used to cycle 18 to my first job. It's not a big deal when you're young and fit.

I see where you're coming from, but I don't think the possibility of saving a few lives, justifies inconveniencing the masses. Its a slippery slope that one, one I think we're too far down already. In this case I reckon theres better solutions than banning driving for young-uns altogether.