Wellington Parking - They are about to clamp down on bike parking

[Jon Visser]

Parking in parking buildings is no answer, unless the owners of said provide bike-sized parks at bike-sized prices.

Absolutely. I have just finished negotiations with all the major parking garages in Wellington that they will now also cater for motorcycles. That means good well-lit spaces in prime locations (not dark dingy corners) close to the entranceways and kiosks where their staff can keep an eye on them. Riders should expect to get exactly the same service and security that car owners get. Compare that to the risk of your bike getting stolen or knocked over by a scooter in a Wellington gale in an on-road park... that's got to be worth something.

Prices offered will be substantially cheaper than for cars. Having all major garages signed up will (and already has) introduce competition between them to attract motorcycle customers, which will result in competitive prices and services specifically catering for riders. All of these garages will be shown on the maps that will be provided to motorcycles parking in the streets. Rates that I have been provided with so far (for prime commercial motorcycle parks) range from $50 per month to $100 per month.

[Swoop]

Rates that I have been provided with so far (for prime commercial motorcycle parks) range from $50 per month to $100 per month.

Good luck.
Those prices are going to penalise biker's wallets, especially if they have moved from $0.00 yearly parking cost for their bike. Suddenly finding $600- $1200- for a years parking...

[Devil]

Dare I mention it's free in all the Auckland city carpark buildings?

[Jon Visser]

I do however wonder, is a mountain being made out of a molehill? Perhaps looking at the Melbourne model of accomodating motorcycles, would be an idea?
Motorcycle transportation is a very efficient system, particularly when the NZ public transport system is abysmal, at best.

If the Council did not receive so many complaints from the rest of the public who do see this as an issue that affects them, then yes we could continue to show the same discretion as we have done in the past. As someone else has mentioned, the Melbourne streetscape is immensely different from Wellington and is not a fair comparison.

I also do not know where this thread got off the rails (excuse the pun) in relation to public transport. This current campaign has nothing to do with shifting people to public transport. It was only raised that public transport is _safer_ than motorcycling (as a comparison). This campaign is solely about encouraging motorcyclists to park with due consideration for others. The feedback we have from the community is that they do want the Council to address this issue because what used to be quite reasonable (and I acknowledge that many riders do try their best to park well out of the way) has now gone beyond what they consider reasonable and has become a problem for them. Everyone has a right to use the public road, and the Council is tasked with determining the fair allocation of that very limited space to the many varied purposes that the public want to use it for. In that capacity, our Councillors (who represent the majority community) have set some very clear expectations on what activities the footpaths may be used for, and parking vehicles on them is not one of those. If you think it should be, then by all means lobby your Councillors to change that policy.

[Jon Visser]

As I am on the subject of bus lanes - as I live a rather long way from Wellington (!), I do not know... but do the buses have bus lanes? If so, then do you open them up to bikes?

New Zealand has two types of "bus lanes". Those defined by law as a "bus lane" may be used by buses, motorcycles and bicycles. In addition to this, local authorities also have the ability to create "special vehicle lanes" which essentially allow or exclude specific vehicle types. Some authorities have used this approach to create lanes that may be used by "buses only", which technically excludes all other types of traffic (such as motorcycles). In some cases they allow "buses or taxis only". This variation across the country and even within a single district makes it quite difficult (as a motorcycle rider) to determine whether you may or may not use a section of "green coloured" road. Signs and road markings aren't always very helpful either. Many bike riders therefore tend to avoid the bus lanes (certainly in the lower North Island) in case they get it wrong. This can get really confusing if there is a "bus lane" that motorcycle riders can use, but it has a "buses only" turning restriction that prevents the bike from being able to turn onto that road. Fortunately in Wellington (unlike Auckland or Christchurch) we do not currently enforce the use of bus lanes as Wellingtonians are, in general, very well behaved :-)

[Swoop]

If the Council did not receive so many complaints from the rest of the public who do see this as an issue that affects them, then yes...

This campaign is solely about encouraging motorcyclists to park with due consideration for others. The feedback we have from the community is that they do want the Council to address this issue because what used to be quite reasonable (and I acknowledge that many riders do try their best to park well out of the way) has now gone beyond what they consider reasonable and has become a problem for them.

So, an increase in numbers of 2-wheeled transport has filled the available parking for bikes.
The council has failed to notice this change in parking needs and bikes have parked in "other" areas available.
= The pedestrians complain.

So by converting more car-parking spaces into bike parking, as suggested earlier, the bikes are off of the pavement, the pedestrians happy, (& eventually) the councillors happy.

Another alternative is to have a piece of plywood which would permit a bike to park on top of it, and take this around the streets working out every nook and cranny which could have a squirt of paint applied and "hey-presto!" another parking space. It would be easy to locate a hundred or so areas like this.
If the public see a bike parked there, in an "authorised spot" they would be less inclined to complain. Also the complaint's from bikers to the council might be less, because the parking wardens would have less work!

[Jon Visser]

So, an increase in numbers of 2-wheeled transport has filled the available parking for bikes.
The council has failed to notice this change in parking needs and bikes have parked in "other" areas available.
= The pedestrians complain.

So by converting more car-parking spaces into bike parking, as suggested earlier, the bikes are off of the pavement, the pedestrians happy, (& eventually) the councillors happy.

Council was very aware of the increase in numbers and responded by firstly increasing our on-road parks from 350 to 450 spaces (a significant increase considering the limited space available in the CBD) and secondly by showing discretion in regard to enforcement by not issuing tickets. As I mentioned in my first posting, this is not just a "few" bikes that we need to create a few more spaces for. It is now 550 and increasing. In a few years this "deficit" could be 1,000 parks. We are responding by addressing this issue to change parking habits now, so that the city can operate effectively and efficiently into the future. We can simply not continue to convert on-road car park spaces into motorcycle spaces. Taking car parks out of commission would cripple the retail business that the city relies on to survive, i.e. we would all lose out and the property owners would not stand for this (which would result in very unhappy Councillors). At best (and we will continue to do so) we can convert a few spaces every now & then, but this will only provide up to 6 spaces per car park bay (i.e. would just be tinkering with the problem, not fix it). To cater for 1000 motorcycles we would need to decommission about 170 spaces, which would for a start represent a $1m loss to the ratepayers (or a 0.5% rates increase) not to mention the detrimental impact this would have on the commercial viability of the CBD. Also, as many of you have pointed out already, the spaces would really need to be close to everyone's destinations, and the only "underutilised" on-road car parks that we can convert tend to be the ones further away from the CBD. On the other hand, we do have lots of space available in the centre of the CBD (in the parking garages) due to commuters changing from cars to motorcycles, so it makes sense to use this space instead.

The limited kerbside parking space that we have available in the city is currently allocated to a very delicate mix of short-term car parking, motorcycle parking, bus stops, taxi stands, loading zones and mobility spaces etc, and there is no way that we can take so many other types of spaces out of commission without having a significant detrimental impact on the users of those other types of parking. ALL are asking for more kerbside spaces for their type of vehicle, and obviously we cannot say yes to all.

In relation to using the footpath, all the "nooks and crannies" that we could turn a blind eye to prevously are now full and the surplus is overflowing onto the footpaths. This is therefore also not a sustainable solution and will eventually result in people getting hurt. We would not be seen as a responsible Council if we allowed that to happen.

We therefore do need to bring about a change in how we consider motorcycle parking, and that is why we are introducing this campaign.

[bogan]

hang about, Do motorcyclists not buy things from shops? Have i missed something here, 1 car park = 6 bikes, if cars average 2 people in them, that is still a 3x increase in parks per person, so more, not less people could park close to the cbd, now how does that hampers sales?

I do of course realise that not everybody has a bike but if those who do are forced to use cars, then this will only increase the problems for parking and congestion.

And where do you get the 1mil loss for 170 parks changed to bikes? gimme a can of paint and 100k and ill go sort it out, actually, for a hundy k ill supply the paint as well!

[Nasty]

hang about, Do motorcyclists not buy things from shops? Have i missed something here, 1 car park = 6 bikes, if cars average 2 people in them, that is still a 3x increase in parks per person, so more, not less people could park close to the cbd, now how does that hampers sales?

I do of course realise that not everybody has a bike but if those who do are forced to use cars, then this will only increase the problems for parking and congestion.

And where do you get the 1mil loss for 170 parks changed to bikes? gimme a can of paint and 100k and ill go sort it out, actually, for a hundy k ill supply the paint as well!

Ok choose what you read and go for it. Yes of course riders buy from shops - but cars are on a two hour time limit ... bikes are not. Hence bikes stay all day during which the rider goes to work - spends little and then buggers off home.

Also your costing seems to not quite measure the same thing - e.g. loss of income rather than loss of carparks - hence the impact on rates.

[Lurch]

hang about, Do motorcyclists not buy things from shops?

Actually, i would be willing to bet most motorcyclists are commuters not shoppers in Welliington and do not contribute greatly to retail.

And where do you get the 1mil loss for 170 parks changed to bikes?

My guess is that the $1m is loss of parking meter revenue

Edit: In fact $4 per hour X 8 hours a day X ~ 240 working days a year X 170 car parks = $1,305 600 in revenue!

[Clockwork]

In relation to using the footpath, all the "nooks and crannies" that we could turn a blind eye to prevously are now full and the surplus is overflowing onto the footpaths. This is therefore also not a sustainable solution and will eventually result in people getting hurt. We would not be seen as a responsible Council if we allowed that to happen.

I think we would all agree that those who park without consideration for other road/footpath users should be ticketed.

The bike park adjacent to where I work currently has bikes parked two deep. Those that arrived early sure wont be able to leave early!

What you seem to be saying is the council were tolerant and co-operative but too many people complained about those bikes that were parked inconsiderately. Why not continue with the rider education process you claim to be embarking upon, ignore the bikes in the "nooks and crannies" and "out of the way" and just ticket the problem bikes?

It must be apparent that some people complain about bikes for petty reasons simply because they resent the fact that riders aren't as inconvenienced as they are. Where I work, I parked my bike off-road in a court yard for many years, I and other's were recently evicted onto the streets simply for aesthetics. The building's new owner felt they made the area somehow untidy.

[bogan]

Actually, i would be willing to bet most motorcyclists are commuters not shoppers in Welliington and do not contribute greatly to retail.



My guess is that the $1m is loss of parking meter revenue

Edit: In fact $4 per hour X 8 hours a day X ~ 240 working days a year X 170 car parks = $1,305 600 in revenue!

ahhh, now i see

[Mully]

Dare I mention it's free in all the Auckland city carpark buildings?

Indeed.

Jon, thank you for fronting up to a situation which was probably never going to be comfortable for you. As you have seen, bikers are passionate about their mode of transport, and any perceived unfairness grates somewhat. Central Government has certainly had a go (or two) at marginalising motorcycles.

That being said, the debate has been relatively clean and the baying mob has restrained themselves admirably.

While I disagree about your comments regarding the superiority of public transport compared to motorcycles (I notice you lump all two-wheeled motorised transport into motorcycles, but that's neither here nor there at this point), I'm from Auckland and our public transport can be described as woeful at best.

Moving to Devil's comment (quoted above), and moving on from your (probably correct) assertion that many motorcycles parking in Wellington have moved from "off-road" parking, Auckland City do supply free motorcycle parking in all it's owned carparks.

Does the Wellington Council own any carparks? Is it prepared to dedicate spaces for motorcycles in those carparks to encourage motorcycle parking there?

Failing that, is there any intention of Wellington Council to encourage private parking building operators (Wilson, et al) to provide free satisfactory parking within their structures? It seems to me that motorcyclists as a whole are unlikely to pay to park.

[Jon Visser]

Does the Wellington Council own any carparks? Is it prepared to dedicate spaces for motorcycles in those carparks to encourage motorcycle parking there?

Wellington City Council has sold off most of its commercial car parking buildings (that is an issue for a completely different thread :-) and currently only operates three:
* Michael Fowler Centre (open-air, no motorcycle parks available, but lots of on-road ones in the vicinity)
* Central Library (very small basement carpark with some odd spaces that can be used by motorcycles & scooters for free)
* Clifton Terrace (a section of space suitable for about 20 bikes is currently being set aside for free motorcycle parking and this will be included in the maps about ot be circulated)

Failing that, is there any intention of Wellington Council to encourage private parking building operators (Wilson, et al) to provide free satisfactory parking within their structures? It seems to me that motorcyclists as a whole are unlikely to pay to park.

All commercial operators that we have been in discussions with are keen to get involved. Only the James Smith provides space for free but, in all fairness, in this world you get what you pay for (i.e. I understand from other riders that this space is not a very desirable place to park). The better a space is (security, covered, managed, guaranteed availability etc) the more reasonable it would be to have to pay for that space/priviledge.

[Squiggles]

Sent you a PM