Wellington Parking - They are about to clamp down on bike parking

[Jon Visser]

jon, its great to see you here on kiwibiker (or kiwibitcher as some see it) and fronting up to the people. Has the council thought of identifying footpath areas where parking a bike would be ok and making up a small plate attached to the ground stating its an authorised bike park and seeing how this would work?

If it was a matter of a couple of spaces that could be an option. Rather than marking the spaces we have just been turning a blind eye. However, with a deficit of 550+ spaces, we're not going to find them on the road or the footpath, especially long-term as the numbers of both cars and bikes keep increasing.

The person who suggested we "simply convert the on road Pay and Display spaces to motorcycle parks" probably does not realise that this would involve clearing car parking from about 10 city blocks, devastate the CBD retail industry and cause a 0.5% rise in rates for 80,000 Wellington households and is therefore anything but trivial (or practical).

[Jon Visser]

It won't be a small amount. It will be enough to push the erquation for affordable commuting vs public transport firmly into the public transport arena.

There is little point expecting the outcome to be beneficial for anyone except WCC and Wilson Parking. Anyone expecting Wilson Parking to charge less for an individual bike park than a cark park really doesn't understand their business model.

If Mr Visser was interested in inner city road safety he'd be looking at clamping down on jay walking, speeding buses on Lambton Quay and making sure that the coefficient of friction for road access covers was something a little better than ice.

The figures I have been quoted by the three major parking garages so far (Tournament, Wilson and CarePark) range from $50 per month to $100 per month, which is substantially less than the rate charged for cars (typically a minimum of $200 per month). Wellington City Council is not charging for any motorcycle parking so stands to earn nothing.

The other road safety issues you have listed are all valid concerns that we are also working on (in addition to the motorcycle parking issue):
- People may remember the actors dressed up as school kids trying to draw attention to the dangers of jaywalking.
- We have assisted police with anti speeding campaigns targeted at buses in the CBD and they drive a lot slower now (though 30km/h still feels mighty fast when you're right next to one).
- I have a "road protection team" that now chases up the utility companies to ensure that their service covers have a minimum coefficient of friction (many telecoms covers have now been replaced by ones with concrete surfaces) and that sites which have been recently chipsealed or sandsealed are swept more regularly and signposted until the loose material is all gone (many bikes slip on the loose material if they don't get adequate warning).
If you have any site-specific concerns, by all means please send them through by PM.

[caseye]

You'd do better to drop the campaigns and concentrate on putting a tarmac coating on road based metal hatch covers and manhole covers. Purely from a motorcyclist's perspective. Spend your existing budget on concrete outcomes rather than blue sky words and programmes and please avoid levying extra from already over-burdened ratepayers too thanks.
"The rest of you suck ups can drop the act too. You're not normally this polite with n00bs EVER.

"


LOL hey I'm always polite, in the frist instance.I'm not a Welly ite but I've lived there and know how hard it is to park anywhere without losing something, yer shirt, the bike/car or the kids! but hey, lets see what else comes of Jon being here before we start the bell ringing.



"The other road safety issues you have listed are all valid concerns that we are also working on (in addition to the motorcycle parking issue):
- People may remember the actors dressed up as school kids trying to draw attention to the dangers of jaywalking.
- We have assisted police with anti speeding campaigns targeted at buses in the CBD and they drive a lot slower now (though 30km/h still feels mighty fast when you're right next to one).
- I have a "road protection team" that now chases up the utility companies to ensure that their service covers have a minimum coefficient of friction (many telecoms covers have now been replaced by ones with concrete surfaces) and that sites which have been recently chipsealed or sandsealed are swept more regularly and signposted until the loose material is all gone (many bikes slip on the loose material if they don't get adequate warning).
If you have any site-specific concerns, by all means please send them through by PM."

[Lurch]

The WCC needs to stop spending money on $400,000 toilets and start getting real. I like to have an interesting and attractive city to live in but stop paying wanks like this for their "art" and start fixing the infrastructure.

[ajturbo]

hey Jon..

thanks for fronting up!!!

i use my bike and it is worth millions to me.. (only a few thou to others) and i try to park close to where i am going....

but i know there is a problem.. and at least you guys (council) are trying....
and the warning thing, you cannot get much fairer ...

[AD345]

Gads, I'm glad MY job doesn't involve interaction with the public (especially the motorcycling subset thereof).

Sheesh

Either lobby your employer for places to park or pay up.

If I was in Jons position I think I could make a pretty good case for making ALL on-road motorcycle parks time-limited and try to push all commuters into parking buildings or employee parking. Thus out-of-towners like myself who visit the city (and are more likely to spend cash than those engaged in earning it) would have somewhere to bloody park.

[Swoop]

and that sites which have been recently chipsealed or sandsealed are swept more regularly and signposted until the loose material is all gone (many bikes slip on the loose material if they don't get adequate warning).

This is a major issue throughout NZ. Unsignposted roadworks seems to be far too common an occurrence and I would personally like to see insurance companies able to claim back for accidents caused by this type of negligence by road crews.
[/rant]

[CookMySock]

If there were 80,000 commuters coming into town on motorcycles instead of cars, parked legally and none of them got hurt, I would be ecstatic :-)

Great! Lets work toward that solution. Whats the first step forward? With the doubling of the number of motorcyclists in one year, you already have a massive momentum in place.

You can't insist on none of them being hurt though. Thats never going to happen. It's not happening with cars either.

Steve

[cheshirecat]

Great! Lets work toward that solution. Whats the first step forward? With the doubling of the number of motorcyclists in one year, you already have a massive momentum in place.

You can't insist on none of them being hurt though. Thats never going to happen. It's not happening with cars either.

Steve

Absolutely

We could help bring 'bikes are part of the solution' philosophy.
The MTA ride to work day was a 'good thing'. Another 'good thing' si the biker community. EG when any of u breaks down etc. Maybe we could have bring a commuter in morning, then the difference in conjestion could then be measured and sen for all

[davebullet]

You either watch someone else implement a solution you hate, or be a hand on the wheel (or should that be bars :-) to make it better.....

I think there is still merit in painting something in areas where motorcycles / small vehicles can squeeze in for the following reasons:
1. Cheap to implement (paint)
2. Make crystal clear what parking will be tolerated (safe, considerate for pedestrian and services access) - avoid unnecessary fines and hostility between the Public and Council
3. Create many more legal parks

To help the council - why don't we start a list of spots? How could we do this? - GPS and a camera?

[scootnz]

How about the spot right outside Wellington Central Police Station? corner of Maning Lane - a spot out of the way and even protected by bollards. Bikes park there already. Is it classed as footpath? Private property? What?

I'm a commuter who parks under my building, (luckily space is provided for free, but it has been a little oversubscribed in the last 12 months) and has occasion to use on road motorcycle parking for short trips around the CBD maybe three or four times a week.

The motorcycle park outside the district court (near the Post Boxes on Lambton Quay) is way too small, and the next nearest motorcycle park is all the way down Lambton Quay (near a drycleaners) and always completely full.

Someone wrote something about having to lug gear around - that's right - when you're already wearing heavy leather gear, carrying a helmet, and a bag of some description, walking long distance is a bit of a bugger. It's not like you can leave the stuff on your bike (like you can in a car), because it may not be there when you get back (if you're unlucky).

You either watch someone else implement a solution you hate, or be a hand on the wheel (or should that be bars :-) to make it better.....

I think there is still merit in painting something in areas where motorcycles / small vehicles can squeeze in for the following reasons:
1. Cheap to implement (paint)
2. Make crystal clear what parking will be tolerated (safe, considerate for pedestrian and services access) - avoid unnecessary fines and hostility between the Public and Council
3. Create many more legal parks

To help the council - why don't we start a list of spots? How could we do this? - GPS and a camera?

[davebullet]

What about converting underutilised bicycle parks? I've noticed a couple down Victoria St. that are consistently underutilised.

Another option could be some parking along frank kitts park. Coonvert some of the green strip to concrete. With the right "off-ramp", you wouldn't interfere with traffic flow and convert what is otherwise unused green area into parking.

What about converting other boggy / squelchy green spaces?

The real problem here is the various resource management, local body green space and other environment acts to jump through.

[magicmonkey]

Jon, on reading your posts it sounds very much like the council has been aware of the situation for some time and allowed it to get to critical mass before addressing it. Seeing as you are predicting more bike traffic in the future is there something in the pipe line to keep on top of this, on a rolling basis, rather than just hoping that the private car parks will take up the slack?

One thing which hasn't been mention (or that I haven't noticed anyway ) is the idea of a 'park and ride' type arrangement, we use them in the UK and they really are a great way of cutting down congestion, freeing up city centre parking and reducing emissions. There are plenty of places around wellington to put the car park and a free or heavily subsidised bus into the city centre would get people interested in using the scheme. If it needs to make money rather than being subsidised then gradual rate hikes could wind up providing revenue as well although you do run the risk of putting people off if there is no financial benefit.

I bet the car parks would make a great place to learn to ride on the weekend as well

[Marknz]

I'd like to see all councils cut down on this sort of crap that I spotted yesterday while SHMBO was getting her hair-cut in Waiwhetu... two carparks marked up, neither of which should be used.

Paid your rates lately?

[Garry.W]

I congratulate Jon on putting himself out there so to speak and have read his posts with interest. Debating the issue on a forum is one thing, getting something sensible done about this issue is another. I wrote to Councillor Pepperell recently.

"Got to congratulate the Council once again for its completely over the top response to an ongoing issue, which included some pretty flash "marketing". Many will have assumed the photo attached to the article was taken on the spur of the moment. Nothing is ever quite as it seems though, I sat and watched as the photographer spent a good 20 minutes with the "actors" involved taking shot after shot on staged manoeuvres until they got it "just right". The guy on the 650GS in no way represents how motorcyclists actually park along the side of the ANZ building and even then the two females still had plenty of room to walk past him. One could imagine someone actually tripping over that side stand but in the main, tripping over a scooter when there's a good couple of metres of footpath left is highly unlikely for most people. Enough of that, just making a point about the "spin". I note the ANZ building now has signage up saying it's illegal to park next to this building and vehicles (assuming motorcycles being the culprits) will be towed at owner's expense etc, etc. Nice touch.

I agree though that the footpath is not an ideal place to park a bike but since Grey Street seems to be the biggest area of concern, according to this article and this is where I park my bike (legally mostly), I remind you of conversations we had back in 2007 when we were going through the rigmarole of Council proposals to charge for motorcycle parking.

This issue was always going arise where motorcycle use increases quickly and the demand for motorcycle parking outstrips supply, such as during higher petrol prices or the breakdown of public transportation systems, a relatively frequent experience here. I said at the time if this happened and was neglected, the result would be inappropriate parking on footways and elsewhere to the inconvenience of pedestrians and other road users. By own admission (again in the article) Council provides 450 motorcycles parks around the CBD yet there's now over a 1000 bikers a day coming in. Most are commuting for work so will be here all day. Do the maths.

You say you want to encourage bikes over single occupant cars in the CBD, and this makes sense, but how about talking with us about what is needed in the city for the growing motorcycle riding population or listening to us when we have solutions that could work rather than saying bugger you all, we'll fine you if you can't find a legal space. I suspect if it came down to it and one had to pay for a parking space they'd bring a car in instead.

A case in point is the Grey Street parking. We used to have the entire left-hand side of Grey Street from Featherstone St to Lambton Quay a couple of years ago but, since the installation of the water feature and the redesign for pedestrian use, there's about half the space for an increasing number of bikes, all ridden by people who work in the immediate vicinity. I recall coming in one day to find this space was actually redesignated as a "Loading Zone". Apparently this was a mistake by contractors and was fixed up following a letter to the Mayor, but nevertheless it shows how much we are thought of.

On the right hand side of Grey Street we've suggested that the best thing would be to retain the two disability parks, put an extra park in designated as a loading zone, and the remaining car parks removed in favour of motorcycle parking. As it stands there are too many people in cars trying to negotiate such a small, no exit street and all they do is end up blocking things up, knocking bikes over (yes, this does happen) and generally being more of a threat to pedestrian traffic than a bunch of, predominantly, scooters parked on the edges of the footpath. Come on down and have a look at what a zoo this place becomes at 4:30 or so one afternoon.

Appreciate it if you'd pass this on to those concerned."