Wellington Parking - They are about to clamp down on bike parking

[Jon Visser]

What about us out of towners? Could the system also take rego numbers by text?

The system developers have certainly looked at that option. We are reluctant to rely on rego for two key reasons:
* Safety - with parallel-parked vehicles it is relatively easy for wardens to scan the barcode from next to the vehicle (e.g. when placed on the inside of the windscreen) but if they need to continually crouch down between two vehicles to scan the rego it is bad for their backs and it will only be a matter of time before someone gets squished.
* Functionality - some customers (e.g. those with fleets of pool vehicles) wanted the barcode to be able to be used by a specific individual in any vehicle, i.e. they would take the one barcode with them and use it in any car (or motorcycle) that they choose to use. This makes it a lot easier for them to manage their accounts (the barcode is paired up to the mobile phone number, not the car).

Because we cannot expect everyone with motorcycles to sign up to P|2|P I think it is important that we also allow for other payment methods, and that we clearly make that information available at the meter (e.g. what sort of lockable device should be used for the receipt and where these can be obtained).

[BMWST?]

I think I had heard of phone2park but assumed it was text parking at a pay terminal. I bit more promotion may be needed of the new system.

I will use it for the car and the bike once the parking rules are changed. How to contain and display the bar code on the bike is an issue; I don't want a sticker on the screen of the bike. There are clear tubular containers for the registration label on bikes which may work for the parking id.

or even the wof type holders.I like the sound of multiple bikes per space.....but still max 2 hts per space.Rego type holders could work,relatively easy to load/reload

[Bald Eagle]

Unlike the txt to park meters which don't all work with all mobile providers, will this work with any mobile phone I wonder.

[swbarnett]

The system developers have certainly looked at that option. We are reluctant to rely on rego for two key reasons:
* Safety - with parallel-parked vehicles it is relatively easy for wardens to scan the barcode from next to the vehicle (e.g. when placed on the inside of the windscreen) but if they need to continually crouch down between two vehicles to scan the rego it is bad for their backs and it will only be a matter of time before someone gets squished.

How do wardens get the number plate when issuing a ticket?

* Functionality - some customers (e.g. those with fleets of pool vehicles) wanted the barcode to be able to be used by a specific individual in any vehicle, i.e. they would take the one barcode with them and use it in any car (or motorcycle) that they choose to use. This makes it a lot easier for them to manage their accounts (the barcode is paired up to the mobile phone number, not the car).

A number plate based system would solve this as well.

Because we cannot expect everyone with motorcycles to sign up to P|2|P I think it is important that we also allow for other payment methods, and that we clearly make that information available at the meter (e.g. what sort of lockable device should be used for the receipt and where these can be obtained).

In which case how would one park legally while obtaining said lockable device?

[BMWST?]

Because we cannot expect everyone with motorcycles to sign up to P|2|P I think it is important that we also allow for other payment methods, and that we clearly make that information available at the meter (e.g. what sort of lockable device should be used for the receipt and where these can be obtained).

Not lockable but reqo label holder could work??

[sinned]

The system developers have certainly looked at that option. We are reluctant to rely on rego for two key reasons:
* Safety - with parallel-parked vehicles it is relatively easy for wardens to scan the barcode from next to the vehicle (e.g. when placed on the inside of the windscreen) but if they need to continually crouch down between two vehicles to scan the rego it is bad for their backs and it will only be a matter of time before someone gets squished.
* Functionality - some customers (e.g. those with fleets of pool vehicles) wanted the barcode to be able to be used by a specific individual in any vehicle, i.e. they would take the one barcode with them and use it in any car (or motorcycle) that they choose to use. This makes it a lot easier for them to manage their accounts (the barcode is paired up to the mobile phone number, not the car).

Because we cannot expect everyone with motorcycles to sign up to P|2|P I think it is important that we also allow for other payment methods, and that we clearly make that information available at the meter (e.g. what sort of lockable device should be used for the receipt and where these can be obtained).

John
When do you expect to implement Phone2Park for motorcycles?

[Jon Visser]

John
When do you expect to implement Phone2Park for motorcycles?

First we need to change the Bylaw to enable this. The proposed CBD motorcycle parking policy goes to Council September/August and the proposed changes to the bylaw after that (expect after RWC2011). There are usually a few months of public consultation before changing a bylaw, so I would be expecting sometime between March & June 2012.

[Jon Visser]

How do wardens get the number plate when issuing a ticket?

The handheld devices that the wardens use include a digital camera that can do 2D Automatic Number Plate Recognition (which is not used to issue a ticket) as well as a 1D barcode scanner (which is used for P|2|P).

A number plate based system would solve this as well.

No it doesn't as many sales reps regularly use rental cars so they always know their own phone number but not what car they will be driving.

In which case how would one park legally while obtaining said lockable device?

Once motorcycles can park in P&D spaces they are able to do so for up to 6 minutes for free like everyone else can. This grace period enables people to park and go to the nearest store to obtain change (and/or a receipt holder), then return to their vehicle to pay for their parking.

[StoneY]

First we need to change the Bylaw to enable this. The proposed CBD motorcycle parking policy goes to Council September/August and the proposed changes to the bylaw after that (expect after RWC2011). There are usually a few months of public consultation before changing a bylaw, so I would be expecting sometime between March & June 2012.

I urge everyone to remember - not being able to use PnD parks assured us of a certain number of reserved free spaces....
I would hate to think that the opening of PnD may cause us to lose spaces already allocated

At this point of time I don't believe that will happen, but you know, open Pandora's box at your own risk I say......

[theseekerfinds]

I urge everyone to remember - not being able to use PnD parks assured us of a certain number of reserved free spaces....
I would hate to think that the opening of PnD may cause us to lose spaces already allocated

At this point of time I don't believe that will happen, but you know, open Pandora's box at your own risk I say......

I can't help but feel that this is the first nail in the coffin of free motorcycle parking in the CBD and that under the guise of the PnD issue they will then remove the free parking facilities currently available without hesitation. they will give with one hand and whisk the rug out from under you with the other while you ogle your shiny trinket..
I was at a council meeting where the issue of free parking was on the agenda and I can say that NOTHING the council said gave me any feelings of security over long term parking in the CBD for motorcyclists, if anything it made me feel an uneasy sense of political gamesmanship was ahead and that we would be slowly but surely shuffled from the CBD to the outer limits of the city and then out into the 'burbs where no one cares if there is free motorcycle parking or not making it all the more easy to remove them in their entirety.
There is no denying that the majority of free motorcycle parks in the CBD are in premium locations and without a doubt money making locations at that. The council can never be trusted simply because they always have a hidden agenda that changes with the breeze meaning that what they say they will do on any given day they really only mean it in the given day it was said. Our free parking is under threat and the reality is we are only along for the ride (no pun intended) with regard to any council decisions. I simply can not believe that the council have the best regard for motorcyclists at heart over the long run and whilst it may not happen today or tomorrow with the shift to use of PnD parking access for motorcyclists the loss of our free parking locations will definitely happen.
of course this is only my opinion..

[swbarnett]

The handheld devices that the wardens use include a digital camera that can do 2D Automatic Number Plate Recognition (which is not used to issue a ticket) as well as a 1D barcode scanner (which is used for P|2|P).

Then why can't this be used to read plates for checking parking validity?

No it doesn't as many sales reps regularly use rental cars so they always know their own phone number but not what car they will be driving.

You wouldn't need to know the number plate in advance. The driver only needs to check the number plate of whatever vehicle they're driving when paying for the park, either by texting it or entering it into a parking meter. This is how it worked in Switzerland when I lived there.

Once motorcycles can park in P&D spaces they are able to do so for up to 6 minutes for free like everyone else can. This grace period enables people to park and go to the nearest store to obtain change (and/or a receipt holder), then return to their vehicle to pay for their parking.

This I was unaware of. Makes sense.

[StoneY]

So far,Council has dealt with us at BRONZ and the other groups who fronted up for discussions both honorably and fairly.
Simon (aka Riffer) delivered a logical, factual case that was built from science, fact and the councils OWN DATA!

To date, Jon has been a man of his word and the executive group I met with were keen to keep us onside. (4000+ signatures helped)

BUT
I still see our mode of transport as part of the solution, and will have NO HESITATION in calling everyone to carry out major disruptive protests IF the opening of PnD reduces our current allotment of free spaces in any way, manner or form.

Of all modes of transport in WCC jurisdictions, of the regional fleet that comes into the city daily PTW (Powered two Wheelers) have grown at a steady 10% + annually and most riders are ratepayers.
No other mode has risen anywhere near that amount, (average .5 - 1.0%) and no matter how many cagers and truckies, couriers, sales reps etc complain there is not enough curb space, there is more need of it for the motorcyclist, casually or otherwise and as we take up less space for the %age of populace serviced I see it as a win/win for all.

We use less space, we create less pollution, the myth we cause traffic jams with our 'accidents' has been busted by the sheer lack of response to actual and factual statistics provided (one muppet on the council claimed our daily accidents cause congestion, ffs) not to mention I have direct access to the statistics the refute such a dissertation.

I found the infrastructure management team to be approachable and fairly decent to deal with.
The move to open PnD to bikes is no excuse to remove the parks we have, as we still have not seen any movement from the parking buildings as promised by Council.
No lockers set up yet - in any of them.
Only ONE building in Wellington has a special rate for bikes and a special parking bay assigned...this is over 6 months since the council promised these buildings would get on the program (Jon any updates for us on this?)

Once we have access to PnD, however it is managed, if we lose ANY of the existing parks, especially the recent ones placed where it is recognized you cannot FIT a cage, I will most definitely encourage, organize and lead extremely disruptive protest in the CBD.
The plans already drawn up.

What I hope for, is the existing agreement that our current spaces will NOT be reduced.
So far there has not been any indication otherwise, but this move to allow us into PnD's scares me in all honesty.
That clause was exactly what justified our ongoing free use of our current spaces, our security blanket just became a LOT thinner....

I wish to see contracted spaces in parking buildings at a pro rata rate calculated on 2 bikes per car space (as yet only Tournament on Taranaki St have such a plan) and LOCKERS....where the f**k are our lockers????

I know Jon is a straight shooter, but ultimately he answers to the council Exec.

The Mayor is on our side
So are a few of the senior councilors, and even NZTA officials see the merit in leaving us alone as it stands.

This is not a dead issue by any means, and could still go either way.

We shall just have to wait and see but rest assured, BRONZ will not sit back and allow our parking to be stripped away by stealth, policy, or rule changes.

Brent

[Jon Visser]

... we still have not seen any movement from the parking buildings as promised by Council.
No lockers set up yet - in any of them.
Only ONE building in Wellington has a special rate for bikes and a special parking bay assigned...this is over 6 months since the council promised these buildings would get on the program (Jon any updates for us on this?)
...
I wish to see contracted spaces in parking buildings at a pro rata rate calculated on 2 bikes per car space (as yet only Tournament on Taranaki St have such a plan) and LOCKERS....where the f**k are our lockers????

As confirmed by all of the parking building providers (some even directly on this bulletin board) they have committed that all of the commercial parking buildings are now available to motorcycles to use on an as-required basis. If no rider asks to sign up for a monthly space, you will not see any space in the building. The moment a rider asks for a space in a building, some will be provided (and they have committed that these will be good quality spaces). The rates they offer are around a quarter of the car price (i.e. $50/month rather than $200/month) which is two times better than what you have asked for. There has been a steady increase in the number of riders using buildings and as has been stated previously it is only when there is a critical mass of riders (i.e. customers) expressing a need for certain amenities that it will become reasonable for the building providers to supply this. That is up to the riders to push for with the building operators. I am aware that there is a reluctance from riders to use some buildings due to the difficulty with access (concrete ramps that are slippery when wet). The building managers have verified that all buildings are available as promised, any claim to the contrary is simply incorrect.

However, this still does not address the need for more casual motorcycle/scooter parking space within the CBD, hece the initiative to open up P&D parking for such riders. We are doing so to support the needs of riders. I ask you to consider whether your stance is actually in support of a better solution or against the needs of other riders?

[StoneY]

As confirmed by all of the parking building providers (some even directly on this bulletin board) they have committed that all of the commercial parking buildings are now available to motorcycles to use on an as-required basis. If no rider asks to sign up for a monthly space, you will not see any space in the building. The moment a rider asks for a space in a building, some will be provided (and they have committed that these will be good quality spaces). The rates they offer are around a quarter of the car price (i.e. $50/month rather than $200/month) which is two times better than what you have asked for. There has been a steady increase in the number of riders using buildings and as has been stated previously it is only when there is a critical mass of riders (i.e. customers) expressing a need for certain amenities that it will become reasonable for the building providers to supply this. That is up to the riders to push for with the building operators. I am aware that there is a reluctance from riders to use some buildings due to the difficulty with access (concrete ramps that are slippery when wet). The building managers have verified that all buildings are available as promised, any claim to the contrary is simply incorrect.

However, this still does not address the need for more casual motorcycle/scooter parking space within the CBD, hece the initiative to open up P&D parking for such riders. We are doing so to support the needs of riders. I ask you to consider whether your stance is actually in support of a better solution or against the needs of other riders?

Thanks for the info Jon

The buildings I have called and asked for pricing tell me I can lease a park at the full rate as applies to leasing a park for my car, and no gear lockers are available to stash bike gear.
The exception to that response has been Tournament, referring to Taranaki st and informed spaces will be made available in the other buildings they manage as interest grows..... however this was 3 weeks ago when i made the 'research' calls.
Is it possible I have not spoken to someone in their organisations who is up with the play?

I will try again and see what response I get, as always your efforts are much appreciated and I do not doubt your honest intention to work with us.

I am always in support of a better solution, as long as our existing parking is not reduced in any way.

If at some point in the future access to PnD is used as a reason to reduce existing Motorcycle AND SCOOTER free parking as it is now, my suspicions will be validated...I hope they will be proven to be false suspicions, but my dealings with central and local govt to date have validated my reluctance to belive in the system, unfortunately.

As stated many times our mode of transport is part of the solution, and we have suffered enough attacks on our choice of transportation in the last 24 months as it stands, so please forgive me for my cynical attitude but it is what the members of BRONZ expect of me, to attempt to see their rights are protected.

Cheers
Brent

[Jon Visser]

Motorcycles wanting to use a building first need to set up an account with the operator (i.e. this only suits commuters). Most of the staff at the call centres should be aware of this, though some of the car park attendants are not. If you contact any of the operators (Wilson, Tournament or Care Park) and they do not allow you to set up an account for motorcycle/scooter parking please let me know and I will personally take it up with their management.

Price will vary by location and will also depend on whether multiple mototrcycles can share the same space.