Wellington Parking - They are about to clamp down on bike parking

[Kennif]

One could argue that it is the riders "not playing nice" (i.e. causing the problems on the footpath that I then need to deal with). Please be very clear that parking a motorcycle in a Pay and Display space in Wellington City is illegal under our Bylaw.

Hi Jon
Thanks for participating in this discussion - I think we all appreciate it. One thing that bugs me is the apparent arbitary actions of the parking wardens. The other day I got pinged for parking the DR in the "broken yellow line" area at Williston & Victoria. Fair enough some will say even tho the bike was parked entirely inside the yellow line and caused no obstruction either to travel of vision.

But along Featherston Street EVERY broken yellow line area on the intersections had one or two bikes parked in them - quite sensibly and responsibly but not ticketed. In addition there were 16 bikes parked on the footpath from the police staion to the Williston St bikepark. So what was it that made the little Amourguard man decided to ticket me and ignore all the rest? Was he just having a bad day? Doesn't like Suzukis? Hates blue? Pre-menopausal? Huh?

Then to rub salt into the wound (!!!) the ticket was for $60, just as it would have been if I had parked my van in that space (which really would have caused an obstruction!)

So not just an arbitary decision based on who knows what but completely unfair fine in view of the circumstances.

It stinks.

[idleidolidyll]

It's obvious that Wellington CC is anti bike and it may be that you will have to go as far as breaching council bylaws in large groups to get your point across.

Perhaps the very forst thing to do is park 200 bike directly outside the mayors office and rev the tits off them.............................

[Kennif]

It's obvious that Wellington CC is anti bike and it may be that you will have to go as far as breaching council bylaws in large groups to get your point across.

Perhaps the very forst thing to do is park 200 bike directly outside the mayors office and rev the tits off them.............................

Unfortunately our mayor has only got two tits. Not very spectacular.

[Nasty]

It's obvious that Wellington CC is anti bike and it may be that you will have to go as far as breaching council bylaws in large groups to get your point across.

Perhaps the very forst thing to do is park 200 bike directly outside the mayors office and rev the tits off them.............................

Always interesting to see someone from another part of the country making sweeping and rather ignorant statements ... The council is actively trying with bikes ... but bikes need to also play ball to work with the others in the city.

[Roki_nz]

Hey everyone

Today the parking wardens have started issue “caution tickets” on all the bikes parked on the footpath. Currently it is just a caution and not a fine (note this is different from the WCC flyers we all had attached) but one would guess that it won’t be long until we all start to get fined

[Kennif]

Hey everyone

Today the parking wardens have started issue “caution tickets” on all the bikes parked on the footpath. Currently it is just a caution and not a fine (note this is different from the WCC flyers we all had attached) but one would guess that it won’t be long until we all start to get fined

So let's get this straight:
(a) Bikes are not allowed to park (and pay!) in a "Pay & Display" area;
(b) Bikes will not be allowed to be parked on a footpath (however considerately)
(c) WCC has not (yet) been able to provide sufficient bike-dedicated parking areas for bikes.

Right so far? So what is it that we are expected to do?

[sinned]

So let's get this straight:
(a) Bikes are not allowed to park (and pay!) in a "Pay & Display" area;
(b) Bikes will not be allowed to be parked on a footpath (however considerately)
(c) WCC has not (yet) been able to provide sufficient bike-dedicated parking areas for bikes.

Right so far? So what is it that we are expected to do?

Get in to the city early to find a free MC park or pay for parking in a building - it is as simple as that.

The issues have been well debated and answered - time to go for a ride (viz. move on).

[Drogen Omen]

So let's get this straight:
(a) Bikes are not allowed to park (and pay!) in a "Pay & Display" area;
(b) Bikes will not be allowed to be parked on a footpath (however considerately)
(c) WCC has not (yet) been able to provide sufficient bike-dedicated parking areas for bikes.

Right so far? So what is it that we are expected to do?

Clearly the answer is obvious, between ACC's FUCKING huge levies and WCC not providing enough bike parks...

They are trying to get rid of us bikers...

I'm fine with that... I have a big Diesel guzzling 4x4, I'm sure the environment would be better off with out me driving it in every day and and polluting the environment and hogging a car park all day...


To WCC... all it take is 1 car park converted to a bike park every 2 blocks.

[Kennif]

Get in to the city early to find a free MC park or pay for parking in a building - it is as simple as that.

The issues have been well debated and answered - time to go for a ride (viz. move on).

Sorry - that's the one size fits all solution and it's a cop-out. I can't get into town early. I need a park at around 1.30pm. You might get into work early and it suits you fine - but that is you. It doesn't work for me. WCC needs to increase the number of bike parks available. And that won't happen if we all take your "I'm all right mate so the rest of you need to move on." attitude.

I don't think the WCC is anti-bike and don't agree with the comments made that suggest that they are. But if we don't ask we won't get.

[Jon Visser]

One thing that bugs me is the apparent arbitary actions of the parking wardens. The other day I got pinged for parking the DR in the "broken yellow line" area at Williston & Victoria. Fair enough some will say even tho the bike was parked entirely inside the yellow line and caused no obstruction either to travel of vision. But along Featherston Street EVERY broken yellow line area on the intersections had one or two bikes parked in them

While we have not been ticketing in general over the past year, we have issued tickets where:
* The vehicle may be parked so dangerously (e.g. across a shop doorway) that we are required to act to protect public safety (normally the response would be a tow).
* We have received a specific complaint from someone, and must therefore act in accordance with the law. Normally that results in the whole street (but not other streets) being ticketed for the same offence.

Your example illustrates why it is so hard (and inappropriate) for wardens to use "selective discretion" - as each interpretation may be slightly different and one could challenge why they got a ticket and someone else committing the same offence did not. Therefore the need to have a clear set of rules that apply to all and consistent enforcement.

[Clockwork]

This thread fell quiet while many of us were distracted by the ACC proposals. To my mind it's been a month or two since we first started this thread and I seem to recall many of us contributors offering suggestions of areas where we felt more motorcycle parking could be created. While maybe 80% of our the suggestions were discounted by you (many unfairly I feel) you did accept that some had possibilities. Are you able to report any progress with respect adding those suggestions to the available pool?

[Jon Visser]

Please post a copy of that bylaw cause I won't believe it until I see it.

See 6.5:
http://www.wellington.govt.nz/plans/bylaws/traffic.html
I am already working to get this removed so that motorcycles can use any Pay and Display spaces legally, or to mark Pay and Display spaces as appropriate for motorcycles only, e.g. where a car can not fit.

Special class restrictions do not always need to be stated implicitly on signs, e.g. there are many taxi and taxi stand rules that are "known" by the users but do not need to be indicated on signs. However, my view is that we should make it as easy as possible for people to park correctly so clear(er) signage would always be an improvement.

As far as I am aware, motorcycles may use Pay and Display spaces after hours when that restriction no longer applies. Conversely, cars may also use motorcycle spaces after hours as long as they are not marked as "at all times" (again, these restrictions do not need to be implicitly stated on the signs, drivers and riders are "assumed" to know all of the road rules).

Also because that kind of discrimination MUST be challenged if the council doesn't provide adequate parking in convenient locales.

The Council is not obliged to provide any parking whatsoever on the road. The fact that we do is because we understand the needs of the road users and the importance of such spaces for the network to operate effectively. I would agree that, for our democracy to operate as intended, rules must be challenged.

Legal protest does not have to be peaceul and if it doesn't disrupt, the media will happily ignore it and so wiill all you politicos

Your assumption is quite wrong. The other road users have rights too, and these are protected by law. Police may use discretion when dealing with protests, but plenty of people have found that not being "peaceful" may result in various forms of legal penalty. Also we are much more likely to listen to a suggestion for improvement that takes into account all of the issues that we need to be concerned about (this helps us to do our job and justifies modifying our approach), rather than a one-sided protest from a group that is just upset at a change not in their favour (this could backfire and have the effect of making things even worse).

[Kennif]

Your example illustrates why it is so hard (and inappropriate) for wardens to use "selective discretion" - as each interpretation may be slightly different and one could challenge why they got a ticket and someone else committing the same offence did not. Therefore the need to have a clear set of rules that apply to all and consistent enforcement.

I suspect that s/he took exception to the teddy bear that rides around on my handlebars.

[Jon Visser]

So let's get this straight:
(a) Bikes are not allowed to park (and pay!) in a "Pay & Display" area;
(b) Bikes will not be allowed to be parked on a footpath (however considerately)
(c) WCC has not (yet) been able to provide sufficient bike-dedicated parking areas for bikes.

Right so far? So what is it that we are expected to do?

As per the fliers, we have arranged for ample parking to be made available in commercial parking garages if you cannot find free and legal parking on the road or in private buildings (i.e. exactly the same expectation as for car drivers). No significant increase of on-road parking space is possible without unreasonable impact on other types of parking, so this will not occur. Once the commuters shift to such off-road locations, this will free up the spaces on the road for short-term motorcycle parking (which we acknowledge will have difficulties in the mean time - hence the need to get people to shift off the road sooner rather than later).

We have reviewed progress and found that although some commuters are now starting to use the parking garages, we have not seen a corresponding improvement on the roads/footpaths. That means "compliant" people have taken the responsibility to make the change, but non-compliant people are taking up the illegal spaces they used to occupy. This is really not fair on the public or those riders who have shown responsibility, so we have started to issue "cautions" to all riders parking illegally.

Those who do not not heed this caution will in future receive an infringement notice (with fine - typically $40 for footpath offences and $60 for road offences) for carrying out the same offence, i.e. if they shift to a different type of location which is still illegal they will get another caution. This allows for a small grace period for people to modify their behaviour without incurring any penalty. However, as stated on the fliers, people will eventually be receiving fines if they continue to park illegally, so the bottom line is that it would be cheaper to shift to a commercial garage than to receive infringement notices. The fines may be an unfortunate necessity to "encourage" the change in behaviour if this does not occur in response to all of the communications and cautions that we have issued so far.

[Jon Visser]

This thread fell quiet while many of us were distracted by the ACC proposals. To my mind it's been a month or two since we first started this thread and I seem to recall many of us contributors offering suggestions of areas where we felt more motorcycle parking could be created. While maybe 80% of our the suggestions were discounted by you (many unfairly I feel) you did accept that some had possibilities. Are you able to report any progress with respect adding those suggestions to the available pool?

Since this thread stared:
* We have created a sizeable area of free motorcycle parking in the Clifton Terrace Car Park.
* We have created a new motorcycles-only parking bay on Cable Street opposite Chaffers Street
* We have identified several locations in Panama Street (adjacent to Grey Street off Featherston Street) that can not be used by any other form of parking so can be converted to motorcycles-only parking. This still needs to go through a formal traffic resolution process before we can mark it on the road.
* I am working to reinstate the College Street motorcycle park.

I have reviewed the Boulcott Street area (see photos attached). I could not find any "great expanse of footpath space" that could be re-allocated to motorcycle parking. The area on the corner (by Plimmer Steps) is extremely dangerous for pedestrians, especially those with sight impairment, and we have had a number of padestrian accidents at this exact location recently. There is nothing guiding people around these motorcycles and the alternatives are for them to walk along the kerb edge or via the steps (i.e. much more dangerous alternatives). Taking those issues into consideration, I cannot see any logical reason for approving any part of this footpath to be used for motorcycle parking. However, we have created two new parking spaces across the road from the construction site (currently indicated as "Pay and Display", though there is no P&D machine so it is not really enforcable as such). I have discussed this with our Traffic Engineer and we have tenatively agreed that when the construction site is completed, the three P&D spaces directly opposite the construction site will be reinstated and the two new spaces will become a motorcycle parking bay.