Lowering the limit? Don't forget the alternatives...

**Genestho** · 10th September 2009, 21:29

Well, the debate is on regarding tackling drink driving, as an "Area of High Concern" and part of the Road Safety Strategy to 2020 - "Safer Journeys".

We- the public are invited to have our say on this by 5pm Friday. 2nd October 2009

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BADD WILL NOT support lowering drink drive limits, preferring to support the aternatives (see poll)

We probably should, as that's the PC thing to do, our limit is now one of the highest in the world.
A drink driver only needs to drive once to maim or kill.

I believe with the numbers MOT are talking about saving on our killing fields, we can achieve the same without targeting the whole population, addressing the 57% 2005 - 2007 stats who did not hold a full license, many smashes were well in excess of our current 80mg/100ml limit.

The downsides of a proposed limit are fairly obvious, and I suggest a little feeble.
Infringment penalties will address the 50mg - 80 mg group, while courts will continue to address the groups above 80mg/100ml.

I support the alternatives provided - Maintain the current BAC and increase the severity of penalties, better informed education to the masses, zero tolerance for youth and commercial drivers, zero tolerance for Recidivist Drink Drivers for three years and Interlocking Devices - I've put in a detailed report regarding "How Interlock Devices work" at the Safer Journeys Online Forum.

For those that doubt the technology, or make opinions without knowing how these work successfully.

Using the Safer Journeys public consultation Initiatives - Tell me how you feel. Or, have a vote please

**Hitcher** · 10th September 2009, 22:00

Zero limit. Zero tolerance.

The message is "Don't drink and drive", not "Drink a little and hope you're not pissed or over the limit".

Alcohol and drugs are major contributors to motor accidents and deaths. Set the standard at a level that can be easily enforced.

**Genestho** · 10th September 2009, 22:17

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Zero limit. Zero tolerance.

The message is "Don't drink and drive", not "Drink a little and hope you're not pissed or over the limit".

That's my quandry right there.

There is a mixed message telling us not to drink and drive, but yet we're also told dependant on sex types, we can have a little and hope for the best!
(Bit like having cars on the road with no speedo and a 100km speed limit)

It's got nothing to do with, how many drinks per hour, per sex at all. And if that's the education we've been sending out there, no wonder we're in trouble.

Our physical and mental makeup is different from one individual to the next, from one day to the next, and every individuals liver expellation is different, dependant on its health. We should not be expected to assume our limit.

The other thing is - not many smashes occur with a BAC between the official CAS stats 0.05 and 0.08. Predominantly smashes appear to be well over the current limit..perhaps the idea is to lower the limit, to lower drink driving and attitudes in general.

**James Deuce** · 10th September 2009, 22:32

Smoke dope and drive everywhere at 20km/hr.

**Jonno.** · 11th September 2009, 00:18

Most of accidents that occur when a person is drunk is when they are well above the current limit. These people just don't care and are I think it would be a good idea to deal with this before frying the small fish.

How many times do you read in the paper about someone who is on their third or fourth drink driving offence, some have even been to jail and they just do not care.

**Mikkel** · 11th September 2009, 01:00

You missed something: Work actively to change both the Kiwi drinking culture and the Kiwi driving culture.

That's where the real problem lies.

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Zero limit. Zero tolerance.

Won't change anything. It's not the people who actually take their personal responsibilities serious that are the problem. Those who don't give a shit won't give a shit whether it's more or less illegal - and I doubt anyone would consider introducing a death penalty for drink driving.

Prohibition has never worked, anywhere, anytime, at all... not unless there is a real threat of death or bodily harm.

**Usarka** · 11th September 2009, 07:34

I like most kiwis believe it's the "drunk" drivers causing the problem, not the people who have a brain cell and work within the current alcohol limits. I am however more than happy to be proven wrong.

Can someone publish the stats for average or distribution of alchohol blood levels in accidents caused by alcohol impaired drivers.

If such stats do not exist, then why not?

**Swoop** · 11th September 2009, 08:03

The current limit allows for a couple of social drinks.

The problem is the recidivist drunk drivers who have no concience about heading out totally plastered.
Enforce the current laws.

**What?** · 11th September 2009, 08:42

What Mikkel said.
If laws worked, we wouldn't need police.

**MSTRS:Me** · 11th September 2009, 08:42

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Smoke dope and drive everywhere at 20km/hr.

Ooooo...that's scary. I try to keep it under 15kph. Even then, the reel seems to be running too fast.

**Flatcap** · 11th September 2009, 08:46

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Zero limit. Zero tolerance.

The message is "Don't drink and drive", not "Drink a little and hope you're not pissed or over the limit".

Alcohol and drugs are major contributors to motor accidents and deaths. Set the standard at a level that can be easily enforced.

So none of Nana's brandy soaked pudding at Christmas then....

**Pussy** · 11th September 2009, 08:52

I'm 100% on your side, T.G.W.... but the "law" isn't working.
Stringent firearms laws don't stop illegal use of them.
The anti smacking law hasn't stopped innocent children being killed by violence.
Is it the general lack of responsibility and discipline in society causing the problem?
I'd love to know the answers

**James Deuce** · 11th September 2009, 08:57

Originally Posted by MSTRS

Ooooo...that's scary. I try to keep it under 15kph. Even then, the reel seems to be running too fast.

Yeah, that was open road speed limit. Urban will be 5kph. Accidents will consist of a gentle bump followed by 15 minutes of rolling around laughing.

**MSTRS:Me** · 11th September 2009, 09:05

Originally Posted by James Deuce

Yeah, that was open road speed limit. Urban will be 5kph. Accidents will consist of a gentle bump followed by 15 minutes of rolling around laughing.

Would be tough finding the time to satisfy the munchies...

**MSTRS:Me** · 11th September 2009, 09:08

Back on topic tho...
Law changes need to be sensible. I mean, they have to resonate with the general population. There is no will to lower limits, rather to toughen up on what we have got now. Why is it that we see repeat offenders not spending significant time in jail, for instance. 3 strikes seems to mean 15 for some judges.