Lowering the limit? Don't forget the alternatives...

[Genestho]

I like most kiwis believe it's the "drunk" drivers causing the problem, not the people who have a brain cell and work within the current alcohol limits. I am however more than happy to be proven wrong.


Can someone publish the stats for average or distribution of alchohol blood levels in accidents caused by alcohol impaired drivers.

If such stats do not exist, then why not?

The only statistical references to BAC in the Full discussion document, are youth, ages 15 -19 and Ages 25 - 34.
And these aren't overall crash stats, theyre from a 2008 AA Poll, and "New Zealand Focus Group"

Page 9 of Alcohol and Drug crash stats - clearly states that over half of drink driver deaths that tested positive, had a BAC of over 150/100ml.

Page 8 of the same pdf, shows distribution of BAC of Drivers killed in road crashes, from '89 - '07

I cut out a couple of graphs showing distribution of BAC of drink driver caused fatalities at my website (click images to enlarge).

Also a clearer picture - page 4 of Alcohol related fatalitiespdf, from LTSA via NZTA.

Page 5 of Motor vehicle Crash data explains what the stats mean..again this addresses fatalities, not overall crash info.

Only statistical data I've ever come across is only in relation to fatalities, not to say it's not in the public domain, it could be requested under the information act.

Here's something interesting from the Safer Journeys Document...

"Those who argue for keeping the BAC at 0.08 say that few drivers are killed with a BAC between 0.05 and 0.08.
However this position ignores the other Road users that are killed by drunk drivers and reflects a misunderstanding of NZ's crash statistics.

For every 100 drunk driver or rider killed in road crashes, there are 55 of their passengers and another 35 sober road users who die with them. This was the number addressed at my website the last couple of years

The number of drivers killed whose alcohol level is recorded is only part of the total number of drivers involved in serious and fatal crashes where alcohol was a contributing factor. Between 2003 and 2007, there were 7,808 drivers involved in crashes "where the presence of alcohol was suspected" and of this number only 4,213 drivers had a BAC level recorded."

Strange that the public are asked to give an opinion based on fatality statistics which clearly show what they do, and polls?

[Genestho]

Also, I should've said in the first post, that Poll option 8 - Move towards compulsary use of Alcohol Interlocking Devices, are suggested to be paired with Zero Tolerance for three years for Recidivst drink drivers, not Joe Average.

[ynot slow]

Education is the way.
We have laws to enforce,just that the judges don't enforce them.How often on police 7 or highway patrol you here he/she was almost double the limit and got 80hours community service disqualified for 6 months.Or even less,there is no requirement to stop if they don't want to.

We all know not to drink and drive,same as keep to 100km or relevant speed limit,don't operate a heavy vehicle outside log book recomendations.

In a real world all vehicles would have 3rd party/full insurance,wof,rego,never speed etc.Never happen me thinks.

[CookMySock]

There is a mixed message telling us not to drink and drive, but yet we're also told dependant on sex types, we can have a little and hope for the best!

Ok what about Instant-fine infringement notices for those with very minor levels of breath alcohol? Something in the range of $80-$150. Current blood-alcohol limits and penalties to remain.

Yes, its just a slap on the wrist, but there SHOULD be a slap on the wrist for what they are doing.

Steve

[NDORFN]

Zero limit. Zero tolerance.

The message is "Don't drink and drive", not "Drink a little and hope you're not pissed or over the limit".

Alcohol and drugs are major contributors to motor accidents and deaths. Set the standard at a level that can be easily enforced.

I'm down with that.

[Genestho]

Ok what about Instant-fine infringement notices for those with very minor levels of breath alcohol? Steve

They'd do that when lowering the limit - I say when, because I am in no doubt it will happen.

The idea is not to clog up the courts system with the lower limit.

[Genestho]

Interestingly alot of the posts here regard current enforcement and how ineffective it is, even alot of cops on the beat back that sentiment, and express frustration.

Heres something I recieved last night...
"....spent all day reading files of the national road safety committee - 3000 pages, as they would not let us take home under the official info act.

Re sentences, there was an interesting run down from Justice - saying their goal is to stop jailing traffic offenders as by 2014 there will be no vacancies at the inn due to increasing violent offences in 18-35 year olds.

It said they will be looking hard across all depts for alternatives for imprisonment. That an adverse consequence of increasing breath checks is more people with a long DUI record - and in light of this a new penalty regime needs to be hatched ie a SOFTER one. They also talked about jail being inappropriate for healh issues ie addicts, and about finding smarter ways to address recidivists."

I don't like theories, it's a rumour, but make of that what you will.

[James Deuce]

Interestingly alot of the posts here regard current enforcement and how ineffective it is, even the cops back that sentiment.

Heres something I recieved last night...
"....spent all day reading files of the national road safety committee - 3000 pages, as they would not let us take home under the official info act.

Re sentences, there was an interesting run down from Justice - saying their goal is to stop jailing traffic offenders as by 2014 there will be no vacancies at the inn due to increasing violent offences in 18-35 year olds.

It said they will be looking hard across all depts for alternatives for imprisonment. That an adverse consequence of increasing breath checks is more people with a long DUI record - and in light of this a new penalty regime needs to be hatched ie a SOFTER one. They also talked about jail being inappropriate for healh issues ie addicts, and about finding smarter ways to address recidivists."

It's a rumour, but make of that what you will.

Gaaaah!

I have a solution.

Escape from New York. Except I vote we use Masterton instead.

[Genestho]

Gaaaah!

I have a solution.

Escape from New York. Except I vote we use Masterton instead.

LOL! Marrssss Ta Din? You're mad!

[Genestho]

Usarka.

The 'why' question you raised, has had me thinking.
Not only is there little evidence regarding overall smashes, they also have not released the recorded BAC distribution levels in the 30.000 EBA prosecutions to date this year.
So I've asked the question over at MOT.
If no response, I'll probably need to release the question to the media, to balance the reality of this debate out, if at least only to get the stats.
We need to be able to make a decision affecting the majority, based on the full facts, not just part of the picture.