How about we start the NEW ZEALAND language

[James Deuce]

there is a maori word for floor, it is long and incorporates the earth.
there is a bastardized maori word for floor, it is floor with perhaps one different letter and different pronunciation.

there are implications when doing this to a language

this is the point im trying to make, but i don't expect people to agree

There is no one Maori language. The concept is recent. Local dialects have held sway over wider areas at times due to conquest or economic superioroty, but the idea that there is a unified Maori culture and language throughout New Zealand is simply wrong.

The very people arguing that "bastardised" words from other languages becoming Maori-ised is offensive are themselves the benefactors of the Kingi movement attempting to standardise Maori language and culture for the benefit of all Maori.

Listen to Ngapuhi and then listen to Ngai Tahu speaking Maori. If they've been acculturated by elders with unbroken access to iwi based Maoritanga, you'll hear very different accents, phrasing and stresses on words that appear the same or similar at face value. What we see as "Maori" is a very modern concept, not much older than I am.

[James Deuce]

actually, spelling and pronunciation varies from one tribe to another.fact

Gee, no kidding, however common grammatical rules that were accepted by treaty signatories were devised in the 19th century. That initial attempt is a lot closer to being "real" as it was devised in partnership with a number of Iwi, not one. A lot of those rules have been changed, dropped or ignored because different iwi have had a lesser or greater influence on the development of "modern" Maori culture.

[Hitcher]

this is the point im trying to make, but i don't expect people to agree

Probably because you're not making it very well. Don't forget that there's no such word in English as verandah or banana.

I get really pissed off when English speakers point at Maori and titter because they've adopted words from other languages because they didn't have one of their own.

Like the Spanish Academy and its French equivalent (whose name I can never remember. Where's 007XX when you need her?), the Maori Language Commission has invested a lot of time and effort into developing Maori words for mathematics, sciences and other similar disciplines. I had a great conversation with a burly Maori chap outside a pub in Whanganui a few New Year's Eves ago on this very matter. He was the bouncer with martial art competencies. He also had a Masters degree (I think in mathematics) and was ever so slightly fluent in Te Reo. I talked with him for hours. He was passionate, well versed in his subject matter, a great conversationalist in that endearing way that many Maori folk are, a great bloke and a shining example of why a book should never be judged by its cover.

[Dean]

Awesome thread! I totally agree, the average NZer is accustomed to the Maori culture/language that it wouldnt be hard to put even a few Maori words into our official language. Maori is taught in all schools, if this were to go down for example the ministry of education would just incorprate Maori as part of the subject english which is non optional for y11 and under. Maori subject is optional at my school and it being a pre dominantly european area suprisingly alot of people are taking the subject. Not to mention tvnz adopting te karere (Maori News), tv3 with pukana, Maori television.

[sinfull]

no such word in English as verandah or banana.

I.

Aaaaaaarrrrgggg ! Then what the hell was it, i ate out on my, ....... deck !!

[hospitalfood]

I get really pissed off when English speakers point at Maori and titter because they've adopted words from other languages because they didn't have one of their own.

i would feel the same way, i am talking about words that do exist in maori being replaced by bastardized words

[James Deuce]

i would feel the same way, i am talking about words that do exist in maori being replaced by bastardized words

That happens in English. Without that change, languages, and usually their attendant cultures, die.

[wickle]

Speak english or get the _uck out!

[James Deuce]

Capitalise "english" and stop bowdlerising or get the fuck out.

[Grahameeboy]

use it if you want, if you don't, don't.

i think it is important for maori people to retain there culture and language, but i think N.Z. europeans should leave this to maori people rather than get to involved.

it is not really up to NZ euro's to make any formal decisions about what happens to maori language in my opinion, nor do I think we necessarily have the right to incorporate maori words into english.

maori language is gaining bastardized new words based very closely on english words, and it seriously upsets some maori friends of mine because it is not true maori. i can understand them feeling this way.

True but all languages evolve...look at English...has changed heaps even in the last 150 years...I suspect that the Maori language has changed over the centuries..just that now there is a lot of PC stuff going on....

[98tls]

i would feel the same way, i am talking about words that do exist in maori being replaced by bastardized words

Out of interest such as?

[James Deuce]

True but all languages evolve...look at English...has changed heaps even in the last 150 years...I suspect that the Maori language has changed over the centuries..just that now there is a lot of PC stuff going on....

It's changed more in the last 50 than the preceding 100.

[Grahameeboy]

It's changed more in the last 50 than the preceding 100.

What English............

[wickle]

What English............

Is not the English language a bastardisted form of the German language

[ynot slow]

After living in the naki most of my life I get pissed off with people(locals both maori and euro)calling Hawera-Harra.Normanby-Normby.The big bug bear was the maori pronunciation of "wh" as ph.Tawhiti as Tarfiti.Speaking to one elderly lady she said we never pronounce it as ph but as others say w as in Tarwiti.Other tribes have own dialect.