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Thread: Skeptics take on the anti-1080 nutters, and others

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    Thumbs up Skeptics take on the anti-1080 nutters, and others

    A documentary which highlights the "distress, cruelty, horror, ecocide, cover-ups and contamination" involved in 1080-based pest control has won the Bent Spoon brickbat from the NZ Skeptics for 2009.

    "Poisoning Paradise - Ecocide in New Zealand" claims that 1080 kills large numbers of native birds, poisons soils, persists in water and interferes with human hormones. Hunters-cum-documentary makers Clyde and Steve Graf believe that 1080 has "stuffed the venison business", and have been travelling the country showing their film since March.

    The NZ Skeptics, along with other groups, are concerned that wide media coverage and nation-wide screenings of "Poisoning Paradise" will lead to a political push, rather than a scientifically based one, to drop 1080 as a form of pest control, with nothing effective to replace it.

    United Future leader Peter Dunne appeared in the film, and described 1080 as "an indiscriminate untargeted killer". Emotions run high in the debate, with one anti-1080 campaigner going so far as to hijack a helicopter at gunpoint and last month threatening to die on Mount Tongariro unless the documentary received prime-time billing.

    "Members of the NZ Skeptics are involved in various conservation efforts across the country. They have seen first-hand the effectiveness of 1080 drops and the brutal ineffectiveness of attempts to control pests by trapping and hunting, even in the smaller fenced arks, let alone in more rugged, isolated areas like Hawdon Valley or Kahurangi National Park," says Skeptics Chair-entity Vicki Hyde.

    "People say that 1080 is cruel - so is a possum when it rips the heads off kokako chicks. Environmental issues aren´t simple. We are forever walking a difficult balancing act. At this stage, 1080 is the best option for helping our threatened species hang on or, even better, thrive. It would be devastating for our wildlife were we to abandon this."

    Hyde has a particular interest in this area, having served for eight years on the Possum Biocontrol Bioethics Committee, alongside representatives from Forest & Bird, the RNZSPCA and Ngai Tahu. Over the past 20 years she has seen 1080 use become more effective with the advent of better knowledge and application methods, and acknowledges that there is always room for improvement.

    "We would dearly love a quick, cheap, humane, highly targeted means of getting rid of possums and other pests but until that day comes, we cannot ignore the clear and present danger to our native wildlife. To do so would be environmentally irresponsible in the extreme."

    Hyde notes that people should be careful in taking documentaries at face value. A 2007 TV3 documentary "Let Us Spray", and related news material, has just been cited as unbalanced, inaccurate and unfair by the Broadcasting Standards Authority.

    "We tend to assume that documentaries are balanced and tell us the whole story, but the increased use of advocacy journalism doesn´t mean this is always the case. After all, remember that psychic charades in programmes like `Sensing Murder´ are marketed as reality programmes!"

    The NZ Skeptics also applaud the following, with Bravo Awards, for demonstrating critical thinking over the past year:

    * Rebecca Palmer, for her article The Devil's in the Details (The Dominion Post 15 June 2009) pointing out that the makutu case owed more to "The Exorcist" than to tikanga Maori.

    "Exorcism rituals, regardless of where they come from, have been shown to harm people, psychologically and physically. There are over 1,000 cases of murder, death and injury recorded on the whatstheharm.net website purely as a result of exorcisms reported in the Western world press over the past 15 years. There are thousands more that occur, for the most part unregarded, in places like Africa, South America or Papua New Guinea. These are all needless victims, often injured by people who care for them and who tragically just didn´t stop to think about the nature of what they were doing."

    * Closeup for Hannah Ockelford´s piece Filtering the Truth (11 Sept 2009), regarding the dodgy sales tactics by an Australian organisation which claims that New Zealand's tap water can cause strokes, heart attacks, cancer and miscarriages. Paul Henry described the Australian promoter as a shyster using scare tactics targeting vulnerable people.

    "This sort of solid investigative reporting makes a welcome change from the celeb and animal stories that so often pass for news and current affairs these days."

    * Rob Harley and Anna McKessar for their documentary The Worst That Could Happen (Real Crime, TV1, 29 July 2009). They took a hard look at the increasing tendency for accusations of accessing computer porn to be made on unfounded grounds, and how it can have devastating consequences for people.

    "Unprotected Internet use can be as life-changing as unprotected sex. It is disturbingly easy to have your computer unwittingly contaminated, and that makes people very vulnerable to job dismissals or even prosecutions on the most circumstantial of evidence."

    * Colin Peacock and Jeremy Rose of Mediawatch on Radio New Zealand National

    "Every week Colin and Jeremy cast a critical eye on New Zealand media. That´s something we all should be doing in demanding that we get thoughtful, informed news and analysis from our media."
    "Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]

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    1080 is the worst way of pest control, it dosent break down, and anything that eats a poisoned animal will also get poisoned.

    the only reason we are the last country to use it is because it is the cheapest.

    Im not concerned at all about cruelty to the possums stoats and rabbits etc, im concerned that it kills everything in its path.

    I also don't think that possums are so bad in NZ, and I don't think there are the number that doc say there are. I am concerned about ferrets, stoats and wild cats.

    I think that wide spread large scale trapping is the answer, but of course its flipping expensive.
    Then I could get a Kb Tshirt, move to Timaru and become a full time crossdressing faggot

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    Of course its safe, so was Agent Orange for 30 years.

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    1080 breaksdown in Water.

    I work with the shit and unless you are a possum you are fine.

    I'll bring some of the technical data home with me tomorrow but a deer would have to consume somat like 60kg of 1080 impregnated carrot to die and EVEN THEN you would have to eat somat like 3 entire deer to feel ill from it.

    I'll be back with the facts and I suggest the nay sayers get their facts straight too before saying what a bad bastard 1080 is.

    Never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh?
    In space, no one can smell your fart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by McJim View Post
    I'll be back with the facts
    Hey,No one likes a know-it-all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Headbanger View Post
    No one likes a know-it-all
    Well I don't.....'swhy I'm going to bring back the Pest Animals Programme docs from the office....If I had an encyclopaedic knowledge I'd be earning more money and probably working for someone else......
    In space, no one can smell your fart.

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    Quote Originally Posted by renegade master View Post
    1080 is the worst way of pest control, it dosent break down, and anything that eats a poisoned animal will also get poisoned.
    Wrong. It does break down. Rainfall breaks it down very quickly. Only dogs and people are affected by eating dead animals poisoned by 1080.

    Quote Originally Posted by renegade master View Post
    the only reason we are the last country to use it is because it is the cheapest.
    Wrong. Nobody else is trying to eradicate a pest mammal.

    Quote Originally Posted by renegade master View Post
    Im not concerned at all about cruelty to the possums stoats and rabbits etc, im concerned that it kills everything in its path.
    It doesn't kill everything in its path.

    Quote Originally Posted by renegade master View Post
    I also don't think that possums are so bad in NZ, and I don't think there are the number that doc say there are. I am concerned about ferrets, stoats and wild cats.
    Two possums is too many. The affect that these pests have on native vegetation and wildlife is horrendous. They're also vectors for bovine Tb and other diseases. Ferrets, stoats and wild cats are also vermin that should be eradicated.

    Quote Originally Posted by renegade master View Post
    I think that wide spread large scale trapping is the answer, but of course its flipping expensive.
    And ineffective. Trapping is ineffective in confined environments without taking it on a larger scale.
    "Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]

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    Quote Originally Posted by McJim View Post
    1080 breaksdown in Water.

    I work with the shit and unless you are a possum you are fine.

    I'll bring some of the technical data home with me tomorrow but a deer would have to consume somat like 60kg of 1080 impregnated carrot to die and EVEN THEN you would have to eat somat like 3 entire deer to feel ill from it.

    I'll be back with the facts and I suggest the nay sayers get their facts straight too before saying what a bad bastard 1080 is.

    Never let the facts get in the way of a good story eh?
    I seen enough poisoned pig dogs who ate possums- no myth, seen em myself
    Frothed at mouth, died in agony, half digested possum in the guts
    Possums have to go but there must be a better way
    Just ride.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Headbanger View Post
    Of course its safe, so was Agent Orange for 30 years.
    Agent Orange was unsafe from the first day it was applied. 1080 has been used for a long time and its effects on ecosystems are very well understood. If there was any doubt about its efficacy, New Zealand authorities would ban its use in a heartbeat.
    "Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]

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    Why have I just seen this thread at this hour of the night?

    I will say this before I leave for the night...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gubb View Post
    Nonono,

    He rides the Leprachhaun at the end of the Rainbow. Usually goes by the name Anne McMommus

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneY View Post
    I seen enough poisoned pig dogs who ate possums- no myth, seen em myself
    Frothed at mouth, died in agony, half digested possum in the guts
    1080 kills dogs. No question. Dogs are highly receptive to it. That's why the agencies that use it go to a lot of trouble to ensure that dog owners know where and when it's being used.
    "Standing on your mother's corpse you told me that you'd wait forever." [Bryan Adams: Summer of 69]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Headbanger View Post
    Of course its safe, so was Agent Orange for 30 years.
    Grew up surrounded by 44 gallon drums of 245T,followed the hype with interest to be honest.Spent many days using via Solos,can remember the huge article back in the day when the press got hold of the fact we were using it in the old brickworks land (ch-ch),think truth be known some house wife objected to ending up with pink sheets.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher View Post
    Agent Orange was unsafe from the first day it was applied.
    Of course, It just depended on who you talked to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneY View Post
    Possums have to go but there must be a better way
    Belt fed guns, artillery and napalm strikes..
    Quote Originally Posted by sil3nt View Post
    Fkn crack up. Most awkward interviewee ever i reckon haha.

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    Yea a little but this thread reminded me of the good ole days (yea i know) of the many still existing Rabbit board houses/Tussock board etc,instead of the all to easy to get welfare system paying out for no return some of them could be allocated/relocated to such areas to deal with such pests.
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