Fork emulators?

[NordieBoy]

I'm probably going to get a pair, since I now know what oil to source. At USD$200 it isn't cheap, but I'm willing to throw that sort of money at it to see if it makes any difference. The bike isn't worth it to me to throw $1000+ worth of suspension work at it... but time will tell.

I like them a lot.
I tried to get some for the XR too but they didn't have any the right diameter

[KS34]

I'm probably going to get a pair, since I now know what oil to source. At USD$200 it isn't cheap, but I'm willing to throw that sort of money at it to see if it makes any difference. The bike isn't worth it to me to throw $1000+ worth of suspension work at it... but time will tell.

I'm not even sure why I'm wading into this one but here goes!

It seems a bit odd that you are considering something quite unknown when money is obviously an important factor. calculate what it will cost you to buy the stuff in the US and the frieght etc etc. I'm estimating you would be close to $400nz. Why not check LOCAL suppliers of suspension services to see if anything is possible with the money you can spend. instead of going off shore to spend your money which chances are you wont be happy with, then to your embarrassment having to go to your LOCAL suspension supplier to spend more money to get a result you could of had LOCALLY in the first place for less money. Remember "you only know the best you have riden" or something like that. Also dont go to CKT they are the best we have in NZ, with affordable options and great on going backup and service, it just sounds too much like a good idea for you.

[PeeJay]

I'm not even sure why I'm wading into this one but here goes!

It seems a bit odd that you are considering something quite unknown when money is obviously an important factor. calculate what it will cost you to buy the stuff in the US and the frieght etc etc. I'm estimating you would be close to $400nz. Why not check LOCAL suppliers of suspension services to see if anything is possible with the money you can spend. instead of going off shore to spend your money which chances are you wont be happy with, then to your embarrassment having to go to your LOCAL suspension supplier to spend more money to get a result you could of had LOCALLY in the first place for less money. Remember "you only know the best you have riden" or something like that. Also dont go to CKT they are the best we have in NZ, with affordable options and great on going backup and service, it just sounds too much like a good idea for you.

yep, the last thing we need in NZ is people willing to try something different.
Next thing you know people will be thinking for themselves without prior approval.

[Robert Taylor]

Here is a chart with some of the popular brands comparing their oil rating in CsT @ 40 degrees.

That chart is already out of date with at least respect to Ohlins oil and it shouldnt be taken as gospel. There has been a lot of reformualtion and further improvement of this oil range and it is ongoing.
Certainly sae ratings for suspension oil is a load of bollocks.

[davebullet]

I'm not even sure why I'm wading into this one but here goes!

It seems a bit odd that you are considering something quite unknown when money is obviously an important factor. calculate what it will cost you to buy the stuff in the US and the frieght etc etc. I'm estimating you would be close to $400nz. Why not check LOCAL suppliers of suspension services to see if anything is possible with the money you can spend. instead of going off shore to spend your money which chances are you wont be happy with, then to your embarrassment having to go to your LOCAL suspension supplier to spend more money to get a result you could of had LOCALLY in the first place for less money. Remember "you only know the best you have riden" or something like that. Also dont go to CKT they are the best we have in NZ, with affordable options and great on going backup and service, it just sounds too much like a good idea for you.

I have no doubt if I sent my bike up to Robert, I'd get fantastic service and the right advice. Maybe another factor here is "tinkering". I like to tinker and totally accept the fact that if it doesn't give me bang for buck - it is all my fault and no-one else.

The cost will be approx NZD$320 incl. shipping (given our great USD exchange rate at the moment). Money is always a factor, but when something is sub NZD$500 - I'll give it a go. I have a friend who has fitted them and is willing to give me a hand. To be fair, I never priced up RT emulators plus fitting. I'm also assuming here my stock shocks are defect free (well - defect free as far as within manufacturer tolerances), but the same problem would be found out / discovered with other fitments I'm sure. The main problem is the "no going back" if I trim the spring spacer the 15mm or so to restore the preload range on the stock shocks (allowing for the 15mm taken up by the intiminators when fitted).

I agree with you "you only know the best you have riden". I haven't ridden anything better! This actually works in my favour. Why? I don't have high expectations, therefore any improvement will be appreciated. I do not have the knowledge or expectation to compare it with a full on, custom configured Ohlins suspended bike (or anything inbetween).

Cheers.

[Robert Taylor]

yep, the last thing we need in NZ is people willing to try something different.
Next thing you know people will be thinking for themselves without prior approval.

But they do need to think hard! Believe it or not there are experts in many industries that will give you a straight up no BS answer.

With respect to the Intiminator I am not fooled by the all too typical US hype. The system does have a lot of merit because shim stacks are excellent at modulating oil flow at varying velocities and having an effective sealing system removes another major drawback of such forks. BUT, anyone who understands oil flow through a damper rod fork knows that it has to flow through fixed holes in the bottom of the damper rod itself. On the SV those holes might just be big enough to not present too great a restriction at high oil flow rates required to absorb nasty abrupt bumps.

Such bumps served up with a much higher percentage of regularity on NZ roads and tracks than in the US.

If later on Ricor start making these for other models of bikes with damper rod forks they will have to reccommend oversizing of the fixed damper rod holes. On a lot of bikes these holes are very restrictive. Until you remove the major restriction out of the equation you will not get a full result.

[warewolf]

How then do Ricor then get around the standard damping rod holes still offering a flow restriction at abrupt bump velocities?

The only answer they seem to have is low viscosity oil (5w) - make it flow through the smaller holes quicker. I'm sure this would cause problems in other aspects.

Reducing the oil weight by 5W reduces the problems with orifice limitation, and since the package includes re-valving, they can compensate for other issues that may arise - although in each case, not completely.

I've ridden Nordieboy's Intiminator-equipped DR650 and it was mighty impressive... for a damper rod fork. (I've had RT GVEs in my Triumph damper rod forks so are somewhat familiar with them.) Braking downhill over big bumps was very good, highlighting their anti-dive performance. Lots of suspension travel left to soak up the bump smoothly.

However, the biggest upset I noticed was over a complex sequence of bumps, it lost the plot and chattered. The same stuff that my cartridge fork KTM handled with comparative aplomb. So perhaps what I was noticing was caused by orifice limitation, still present although reduced?

[Robert Taylor]

Reducing the oil weight by 5W reduces the problems with orifice limitation, and since the package includes re-valving, they can compensate for other issues that may arise - although in each case, not completely.

I've ridden Nordieboy's Intiminator-equipped DR650 and it was mighty impressive... for a damper rod fork. (I've had RT GVEs in my Triumph damper rod forks so are somewhat familiar with them.) Braking downhill over big bumps was very good, highlighting their anti-dive performance. Lots of suspension travel left to soak up the bump smoothly.

However, the biggest upset I noticed was over a complex sequence of bumps, it lost the plot and chattered. The same stuff that my cartridge fork KTM handled with comparative aplomb. So perhaps what I was noticing was caused by orifice limitation, still present although reduced?

Orifice limitation, I believe so yes

[Robert Taylor]

Reducing the oil weight by 5W reduces the problems with orifice limitation, and since the package includes re-valving, they can compensate for other issues that may arise - although in each case, not completely.

I've ridden Nordieboy's Intiminator-equipped DR650 and it was mighty impressive... for a damper rod fork. (I've had RT GVEs in my Triumph damper rod forks so are somewhat familiar with them.) Braking downhill over big bumps was very good, highlighting their anti-dive performance. Lots of suspension travel left to soak up the bump smoothly.

However, the biggest upset I noticed was over a complex sequence of bumps, it lost the plot and chattered. The same stuff that my cartridge fork KTM handled with comparative aplomb. So perhaps what I was noticing was caused by orifice limitation, still present although reduced?

The important point also is that the standard damper rod ports in the DR are not the smallest on the block so they can just get away with it. There are many damper rods that have very small ports and therefore without modification Intimators will NOT work. The Yanks are certainly the worst people on the planet when it comes to hype....

[warewolf]

Yeah. What do they do when a bike has 5W standard, is there a 0W??

I understand they wanted the install as simple as possible. IIRC some of the material I skimmed said ppl were put off GVEs due to having to disassemble the forks and drill the damper rods. I suspect they will have to go down that route with some applications.

For the specific application of the DR650, they really did transform the front end and I would have to say they are worthwhile. Don't know that GVEs would achieve the same thing - haven't ridden one to know.

[davebullet]

I suppose what drew me to the Intiminators was they have a specific product and reference to the SV650. I still haven't fitted them (time poor as well) but will report back.

I totally expect the Intiminators to leave some undesirable characteristics. I may still not be happy with any improvements they offer. We'll see.

[RicorSHX]

Robert / pussy,

Thanks for the information. I design loudspeakers as a hobby, and it amazes me how many newbies think they can just buy some drivers (speaker cones), chuck them in a box with an off the shelf passive crossover and think they are going to get something nice sounding.

So I put myself in the same boat when it comes to suspension.

Robert,

Here is the Ricor site link to the SV650 specific product page. There are some FAQ pages on the left hand menubar where Ricor provides their approach / beliefs:
http://store.ricorshocks.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=32

Here is the ricor vendor sub-forum on svrider:
http://forum.svrider.com/forumdisplay.php?f=67

Here is a specific post on the rebound and damping properties:
http://forum.svrider.com/showthread.php?t=100825

(PS: I find it funny how people use "dampening" and not damping. Do you really want wet shocks or shocks that correctly respond to surface variability )

We wanted to get the Ninja 250 buzz going so we sent a set of Ricor inertia valve inserts to a California rider who had just posted about the Emulators she installed and liked.

This email was sent to us after her day at the track:

Wow. I had a great day. The bike handled beautifully. The front end was much smoother and helped the rear shock work better. She didn’t dive at all. My bike was smoother in setting up so I could enter the corners much faster. The rebound was smooth as well. They are really great. Even with the RT emulators and 10 weight oil she still dove on braking. I prefer them to the Race Tech emulators 10 to 1, and compared with the stock shocks they are 100% better. I’m going to take her out on some twisties up Hwy 33 this week so I’ll let you know how she handles on the street.

Let me know if you want me to do a more complete write-up. I’ll be happy to post to my Ninja and other bike sites. So…when are you going to have a shock ready for the little ninjas??

Thanks again to you and Brian(?),

Elizabeth Rodeno

[F5 Dave]

Yeah. What do they do when a bike has 5W standard, is there a 0W??
. . .

um, Water?

[NordieBoy]

We wanted to get the Ninja 250 buzz going so we sent a set of Ricor inertia valve inserts to a California rider who had just posted about the Emulators she installed and liked.

Right.

Now get back to work on the DR rear shock

I've done my review and have a pair of Vibranators on the way...
I want to kill the DR650 buzz

[Robert Taylor]

We wanted to get the Ninja 250 buzz going so we sent a set of Ricor inertia valve inserts to a California rider who had just posted about the Emulators she installed and liked.

This email was sent to us after her day at the track:

Wow. I had a great day. The bike handled beautifully. The front end was much smoother and helped the rear shock work better. She didn’t dive at all. My bike was smoother in setting up so I could enter the corners much faster. The rebound was smooth as well. They are really great. Even with the RT emulators and 10 weight oil she still dove on braking. I prefer them to the Race Tech emulators 10 to 1, and compared with the stock shocks they are 100% better. I’m going to take her out on some twisties up Hwy 33 this week so I’ll let you know how she handles on the street.

Let me know if you want me to do a more complete write-up. I’ll be happy to post to my Ninja and other bike sites. So…when are you going to have a shock ready for the little ninjas??

Thanks again to you and Brian(?),

Elizabeth Rodeno

We modify emulators specifically for road race use to much more effectively modulate brake dive speed. There is as much in careful pre-prep and attention to detail as anything.
I think there needs to be a much wider sampling rate of Intimators ( particularly with more challenging installations ) before a blanket opinion is formed.Im not doubting they have serious merit, its just too easy to get carried away with all the hype to then find that maybe they havent got all bases covered.