Countersteering advice...

[magicmonkey]

righty then! Time for me to make yet another noob post asking for advice

So, I went out for a ride down the coast after work last night (windy as fuck but that's a whole other topic right there) and when I had enough visibility of the road ahead I thought it would be a good idea to play around with counter steering. Somethig very strange happened, I can countersteer to the right and got plenty of practice in doing that which was useful, but when it come to countersteering to the left my left arm goes completely rigid! I actually have to make a conscious effort to drop my shoulder and relax my arm before I can consciously do it. If I turn off the brain and 'just lean' I know that I much be using countersteering or I wouldn't get around the corner; the second I try and do it consciously I completely lock up

So, other than practice, practice, practice; has anyone experienced this before and got any useful advice? or if you'd just like to take the piss feel free

[Laxi]

surely the idea is that you shouldn't have to think about, hence n.p

[retro asian]

Relax your whole body when countersteering....stiff doesn't work so well

It's all in the hips...

[MSTRS:Me]

Some people find it easier to pull (yea - all right - settle down) rather than push. For this to work, you must pull on the opposite side to the one on which you push. Following me?

[FJRider]

Some people find it easier to pull (yea - all right - settle down) rather than push. For this to work, you must pull on the opposite side to the one on which you push. Following me?

And some people just dont like going round left-hand corners....

[CookMySock]

I actually have to make a conscious effort to drop my shoulder and relax my arm before I can consciously do it. If I turn off the brain and 'just lean' I know that I much be using countersteering or I wouldn't get around the corner; the second I try and do it consciously I completely lock up

This is EXACTLY why you should have done this lesson on your very first 70km/hr ride.

What you have done, is imprinted on your brain, you own personal "way" of steering. This happened when you used your own method and then allowed yourself time to consolidate it, and now this is what your brain will revert to in an emergency. When you try to force yourself to do what you now know to be the right way - your brain will act to prevent you.

I don't think you will be able to rectify this. No amount of practice will undo that imprint. Prove me wrong though, if you can, and then tell me how you did it.

This reminds me of a movie I saw some years ago, where some chopper pilot in the military was unable to use his left eye on the viewfinder/targetty thing, so they taped a periscope to his targetting eye and put him in a jeep and forced to steer around the base for hours at lightspeed until he "got it." The poor cunt was terrified out of his brains, but he sorted his eye, er.. brain, out.

Steve

[magicmonkey]

And some people just dont like going round left-hand corners....

Yeah, I'm very much a rightist, I think that all left hand corners are inferior and should be replaces by a series of right handers instead. In the near future I will be arranging a protest and maybe some 'direct action' to put this point accross

[FJRider]

Yeah, I'm very much a rightist, I think that all left hand corners are inferior and should be replaces by a series of right handers instead. In the near future I will be arranging a protest and maybe some 'direct action' to put this point accross

I'm actually serious....

I dont know if its an inner-ear/balance issue ... or what. Some (like me) prefer, and feel more comfortable, on right hand bends.

[george formby]

And some people just dont like going round left-hand corners....

Valid point, after my run on Sunday I'm 5mm off the edge on the right of the tyre & on the edge on the left. It may be a visibility/road surface thing.
I'm still not convinced that counter steering comes into play unless your really pushing on though. I turn my head, my bike turns. Would moving your body weight into a corner, i.e lifting the bike slightly as you move over & lower the C of G be considered counter steering? This action pushes against the gyroscopic effect which keeps the bike straight & allows the bike to turn in with no steering effort. Again I only do this when I'm in the mood to get stuck into the corners.

[FROSTY:Me]

Dude a part of your problem may very well be the shape of your handlebars. A set of bars with a flatter angle on them might fix things for ya

[vifferman]

I'm actually serious....

I dont know if its an inner-ear/balance issue ... or what. Some (like me) prefer, and feel more comfortable, on right hand bends.

No, it's an Antipodean thing.
Most/many riders in the OtherPartOfTheWorld prefer,and feel more comfortable, on left-hand bends.

As for your counter-steering practice, Mr magicofmonkey, Sir - forget about it. Concentrate on leading through the corner with your inside shoulder (point it into the corner), and on looking through the corner.
And try not to think so much. Feel the corner you must. Be at one with the curve. Wax on, wax off. Ying-tong-iddle-i-po.

[MSTRS:Me]

Valid point, after my run on Sunday I'm 5mm off the edge on the right of the tyre & on the edge on the left. It may be a visibility/road surface thing.
I'm still not convinced that counter steering comes into play unless your really pushing on though. I turn my head, my bike turns. Would moving your body weight into a corner, i.e lifting the bike slightly as you move over & lower the C of G be considered counter steering? This action pushes against the gyroscopic effect which keeps the bike straight & allows the bike to turn in with no steering effort. Again I only do this when I'm in the mood to get stuck into the corners.

No matter what you think you are doing...if you are travelling at more than 15/20kph...you must countersteer to turn. How you achieve it is up to you, but you are momentarily getting the front to turn microscopically in the 'wrong' direction, which tips the tyre onto the side that you turn in. A push or pull on the bars is the most effective way to achieve this. Anything else is too 'soft' to allow snappy course changes.

[325rocket]

I wouldnt get to cut up about it. counter steering isnt all that important until you start getting a good bit of pace on.

it is a good habit to get into but dont stress and fixate on the fact that you find it difficult or it will become a problem.

If it really is stressing you out, send me a message and we can go to a ‘practise spot’ I know that is not a public road and set up a track.

[george formby]

No, it's an Antipodean thing.
Most/many riders in the OtherPartOfTheWorld prefer,and feel more comfortable, on left-hand bends.

As for your counter-steering practice, Mr magicofmonkey, Sir - forget about it. Concentrate on leading through corner with your inside shoulder (point it into the corner), and on looking through the corner.
And try not to think so much. Feel the corner you must. Be at one with the curve. Wax on, wax off. Ying-tong-iddle-i-po.

Here here, pass the cocoa.

[magicmonkey]

This is EXACTLY why you should have done this lesson on your very first 70km/hr ride.

What you have done, is imprinted on your brain, you own personal "way" of steering. This happened when you used your own method and then allowed yourself time to consolidate it, and now this is what your brain will revert to in an emergency. When you try to force yourself to do what you now know to be the right way - your brain will act to prevent you.

I don't think you will be able to rectify this. No amount of practice will undo that imprint. Prove me wrong though, if you can, and then tell me how you did it.

Nah, I don't go for that reasoning at all, I've got so much to learn that it'll become second nature eventually. I mean, when I first started driving I couldn't corner for beans and my gear changes were appalling, these days my changes are smooth and I get around corners rather well.

Over the winter I got the chance to go on the Irishmans rally in a ford model A, the accelerator is the middle pedal and the brake is on the right, double de-clutching, drum brakes on the front wheels etc. I had to completely change my driving co-ordination and it took about 5 minutes to get it right.

This reminds me of a movie I saw some years ago, where some chopper pilot in the military was unable to use his left eye on the viewfinder/targetty thing, so they taped a periscope to his targetting eye and put him in a jeep and forced to steer around the base for hours at lightspeed until he "got it." The poor cunt was terrified out of his brains, but he sorted his eye, er.. brain, out.

Steve

Bet that was a pom idea!!!