Do you in NZ have to wear full gear?

[FJRider]

Lead by example and bask in the warm glow of smug self-satisfaction when you see others doing it wrong.

And say "I told you that would happen" when the motorcycle registration levys for ACC go up again.

But I'm betting the "warm glow" will not be one of smug satisfaction ...

[James Deuce]

And say "I told you that would happen" when the motorcycle registration levys for ACC go up again.

But I'm betting the "warm glow" will not be one of smug satisfaction ...

I'd really like to see a study into the costs related to treating riders in "full" gear (whatever that is) and riders "doing it wrong". I don't believe the difference would be as significant as some believe.

I think the winnable argument is the pain aversion one, and generally speaking people aren't that pain averse in certain situations until they've experienced pain as a direct result of ignorance or the choice to behave in a risky fashion without some precautions.

Most of all it's a personal choice and people making choices should be of no consequence to other random people. If you want to have a discussion with someone you care about, someone who will listen to your opinion respectfully, then that should be the target audience.

We do not need motorcyclists crying for regulatory compliance in regard to riding gear.

[FJRider]

I'd really like to see a study into the costs related to treating riders in "full" gear (whatever that is) and riders "doing it wrong". I don't believe the difference would be as significant as some believe.

A study, or statistics of such differences, wont make much difference untill enough people in position to make such decisions (to make that increase happen) believe it is signifigant.

I think the winnable argument is the pain aversion one, and generally speaking people aren't that pain averse in certain situations until they've experienced pain as a direct result of ignorance or the choice to behave in a risky fashion without some precautions.

There are a few people I have seen, riding scooters AND motorcycles that I would like to introduce to people I know personally, who have had an "off" inside town limits, in summer, in shorts T-shirt and jandals. They often get back to work in a reasonably short period of time. BUT ... the scarring, ongoing skin-grafts, and visible chunks (some large) missing, continue ...

Most of all it's a personal choice and people making choices should be of no consequence to other random people. If you want to have a discussion with someone you care about, someone who will listen to your opinion respectfully, then that should be the target audience.

We do not need motorcyclists crying for regulatory compliance in regard to riding gear.

All true ... but if as part of learner licence training, film footage of possible injuries, or being introduced to patients in hospitals with those injuries. More people would wear the gear.

[marigami]

For the benefit of Mari, Jandals = Flip Flops

Thanks for this, I was gonna ask about it...

[James Deuce]

A Samoan Mum brandishing a Jandal is the Pacific's most lethal Special Forces unit. Approach with caution.

[marigami]

I can see that this kind of discussion is leading towards discussion on freedom and self respect and rules and safety for the bikers.
Well I do think it should be mandatory in training courses even before the biker could buy its bike to have at least one hour regarding the proper gear the biker should wear and why.
True it would be its ownn decision to wear it or not but have the informations previous to the licence would be good.

[marigami]

A Samoan Mum brandishing a Jandal is the Pacific's most lethal Special Forces unit. Approach with caution.

Wooooww I'm impressed and scared!
i prepare for this.

[James Deuce]

I guarantee you're not.

[sinned]

What carnage? I spent my teenage years falling off push bikes at scooter speeds. Still here. Still right.

Likewise but only on push bikes (who rode scooters back then?) and damage to hands was one of the first areas the doctor inspected.
All this fuss about gear for riding motorcycles when cyclists have almost nil protection except for helmet and gloves. So here is a question; are you more or less likely to come off a motorcycle, scooter or cycle at under 50kph?

If you are okay about riding a cycle with no body protection why not a MC or scooter at urban speeds? I struggle to see the difference.

[breakaway]

Lead by example and bask in the warm glow of smug self-satisfaction when you see others doing it wrong.

And also in the warm glow of the fact that you didn't require multiple skin grafts

Personally, don't care about what others wear.

I reckon its just too risky - It's just that I don't fancy coming off at 50 km/h on my way to a mate's house or whatever and then spending the next few weeks in hospital with artificial skin dressings all over me because my unprotected skin dragged along the road for 10 meters.

All this avoided by spending 20 seconds gearing up. Not worth it I reckon.

[motorbyclist]

I can see that this kind of discussion is leading towards discussion on freedom and self respect and rules and safety for the bikers..

Here in NZ we have ACC - state owned mandatory accident health insurance.

To get users to pay extra for high risk activities, they charge levies. For a motorcylist, this is 9c/L on fuel and $250 per year per bike to register their bike, plus tax on our income.

For political reasons, we're under fire about the high cost of motorcycle injuries and are about to see that $250 increase to $750, per year per bike.

All this regardless of what we wear or how many claims we make.

Now while ACC did falsify data to back themselves up, motorcylists are still currently undercharged (assuming they own just one motorcycle).

So we have the common argument about personal freedom of choice, versus the responsible paying for the accidents of the irresponsible.

Personally, don't care about what others wear.

I own two registerd motorcycles and DO care that i can't afford to keep them if the proposed levy increase goes through parliament, despite have never made a claim and taking all practical/reasonable measures to ensure that if/when i have an accident I am unhurt.

I reckon its just too risky - It's just that I don't fancy coming off at 50 km/h on my way to a mate's house or whatever and then spending the next few weeks in hospital with artificial skin dressings all over me because my unprotected skin dragged along the road for 10 meters.

All this avoided by spending 20 seconds gearing up. Not worth it I reckon.

totally agree - though the skin damage pales in insignificance compared to the muscular and skeletal damage that can cost limbs (if not just the use of them)

as for those who dont see the connection between protective gear and protection:

I know two people who both broke their elbows on road bikes:
One was wearing a leather armoured jacket, helmet, boots, gloves. After his elbow smashing against a curb at 80kph and then going headfirst into a bank, two surgeries later he's got about 50% motion back in his arm and didn't even suffer a concussion.
The other was wearing nothing but a helmet a few sizes too big, and didn't even have a rego or wof. After a truck pulled across his path in a 50k zone, injuries included road rash to ass, thighs, both feet and hands, internal bleeding in his left arm and bleeding between skull and brain, and a destroyed right elbow (and a fucked foot). He now has a titanium elbow joint as half the bone was left on the road.
Seeing as he didn't even have a rego, WE are the ones who have paid for his titanium elbow, month in a nuero ward, and ongoing physio costs.

So, next time you pay for you rego or earner levy or even petrol, consider that you're paying extra so that other people can enjoy their "personal freedom" to not take reasonable precautions.

I say we keep mocking them and help reinforce the positive shift in attitude towards gear that motorcycling in taking, and hope that it even extends to the scooter riders out there.

[James Deuce]

Lecturing people never changes their minds about anything.

Sanctimonious long winded rants about what other people wear have no impact. You need to go and have a sanctimonious discussion with the person or people who offended you. That will go down well, I'm sure.

You can't use magnitude of injury as an example either. By far my worst accident was at 50km/hr and wearing all the gear. Subjective arguments about bike gear have less value than opinions in general. IMO.

In the meantime, I will wear on my motorcycle, what I feel comfortable wearing. I will never, ever demand that someone meet or exceed my expectations either. Most people can ride a motorcycle better than I can, and most people are equipped with enough faculties to make both good and bad decisions.

[Zuki lover]

well, sidewinder wears a pink g-string when he rides and backwards, when he wants to go faster so what is it you do wear????

[twotyred]

No not yet, but under the globalist govt. system here,it's only a matter of time...

[marigami]

Still difficult to make the point I can see!!
As I wrote previously here in France only Helmet is mandatory and some of us do not even have full helmet but olddies one with googles (is that the right word by the way?)
If you're not wearing helmets you're fined.
In my opinion wearing full gear,or at least proper solid fabric gear like jeans(pants and jacket) and proper shoes is a question of good sense,obvious and,yes,sorry for those who are so keen on their own freedom and self decision,a question of good will and,in a way, good reputation.
Sorry for my bad english again because I can find the proper words to really explain what I want to mean.
I can't help wincing whenever I see I biker without gloves,short sleeved and with flip flop (jandals lol hehe) because we are all individuals true but we are also a community (well I might be naive but I still whish to see riders as a huge special community with a lot of solidarity) and for that we have kind of...duties
All right with this word,you're not going to strangle me are you?
Bikers still have bad reputation for a lot of people (pff they just don't know) so it is also our "duty" to show our abilities and that we are not fools or light head.
Do you understand my meaning among all my mixing words, again for that.