Top-out springs?

[slowpoke]

You guys have been quite diplomatic towards the customers but aren't we (racers) the main issue with a lot of this stuff?

It's easy for riders to twist the throttle and feel the instant difference of adding more motor, to explore the limits of hp, even if it's only on the straight bits.

It's exponentially more difficult for a rider to consistently explore the limits of braking/cornering without exceeding that limit. The guys who can ride that knife edge and analyse what is happening while they are doing it are few and far between.

Which makes what Robert and co are trying to extoll a very difficult sell. It's like trying to describe colours to a blind person. What is it you are feeling? What's causing it? What is required to reduce or improve that feeling? Is what you've felt good or bad?

Without the benefit of a day (or days) at the track and your own personal suspension tech it's bloody hard to even quantify alterations to suspension. Most of us would try to assess something at a race or track/test day send off our components for adjustment (eg: top out spring change) and tick off the weeks on the calendar until we can get to the track again. At which time the weather, track conditions and rider performance could be totally different.

Which unfortunately means that the tail is left to wag the dog. Beyond spring changes and clicker adjustments we are relying on the ever patient Robert, Shaun and co (poor bugger's!) suggesting how to improve the handling of our bikes if we approach them with an issue. We simply don't have the skills, knowledge or even language to know what to ask for. Sad but true.

[GSVR]

Sort it then and stop grizzling about it. A well sorted trackday setup wouldnt neccessarily be uncomfortable on the road.

"A well sorted trackday setup wouldn't neccessarily be uncomfortable on the road" if... the roads where as as smooth as the track, had the same level of grip and we rode at the same speeds as we do on the track.

I for one don't have the same confidence that I can brake as hard or expect the same level of grip through the corners on the road as I would find on the track.

The most hardcore of the road riders I know ride big heavy tourers that they have no desire to take to the track as they are built for comfort before outright performance.

Suspension aside you have to have the right bike for what you are doing and a bike set up for the track makes neither a good commuter or tourer.

[Robert Taylor]

You guys have been quite diplomatic towards the customers but aren't we (racers) the main issue with a lot of this stuff?

It's easy for riders to twist the throttle and feel the instant difference of adding more motor, to explore the limits of hp, even if it's only on the straight bits.

It's exponentially more difficult for a rider to consistently explore the limits of braking/cornering without exceeding that limit. The guys who can ride that knife edge and analyse what is happening while they are doing it are few and far between.

Which makes what Robert and co are trying to extoll a very difficult sell. It's like trying to describe colours to a blind person. What is it you are feeling? What's causing it? What is required to reduce or improve that feeling? Is what you've felt good or bad?

Without the benefit of a day (or days) at the track and your own personal suspension tech it's bloody hard to even quantify alterations to suspension. Most of us would try to assess something at a race or track/test day send off our components for adjustment (eg: top out spring change) and tick off the weeks on the calendar until we can get to the track again. At which time the weather, track conditions and rider performance could be totally different.

Which unfortunately means that the tail is left to wag the dog. Beyond spring changes and clicker adjustments we are relying on the ever patient Robert, Shaun and co (poor bugger's!) suggesting how to improve the handling of our bikes if we approach them with an issue. We simply don't have the skills, knowledge or even language to know what to ask for. Sad but true.

Very good points, good suspension gets you to a new higher plateau, but being human those of us with higher expectations are inquisitive to keep pushing for more knowledge.

[Yankee Doodle Dandy]

You guys have been quite diplomatic towards the customers but aren't we (racers) the main issue with a lot of this stuff?

I have always thought that one of the main reasons the factory teams are so successful is that the only thing they rely on the rider to do is ride the bike.

[slowpoke]

I should add here that the suspension seminars run by Robert/CKT have been invaluable for racers looking to improve their knowlege and performance. To actually see and hold the components you guys are talking about and to discuss the effects of various changes, or different ways of achieving a certain action has been almost a relief. Kinda like scratching an itch you didn't know you had.

Using that knowledge is another thing altogether but at least it gives a starting point.

[Robert Taylor]

I have always thought that one of the main reasons the factory teams are so successful is that the only thing they rely on the rider to do is ride the bike.

And the HMI component is always replaceable!!!

[Robert Taylor]

I should add here that the suspension seminars run by Robert/CKT have been invaluable for racers looking to improve their knowlege and performance. To actually see and hold the components you guys are talking about and to discuss the effects of various changes, or different ways of achieving a certain action has been almost a relief. Kinda like scratching an itch you didn't know you had.

Using that knowledge is another thing altogether but at least it gives a starting point.

We are running more of those seminars in December with Peter Goddard. If anyone is interested please e-mail to me, robert@crownkiwi.co.nz

Available only to those who use CKT for suspension.