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Thread: Manifesto

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixion View Post
    OK. So were're all going down to Wellington. Cos we're opposed to the levies.

    So, what do we want? What's our posiiton

    We need a manifesto


    So, what are our principles and intentions

    And before we go ANY further let's be clear. here, we are ONLY talking about intentions (and I guess principles) about LEVIES.

    This manifesto will form the basis of what we say at parliament and what we say to the Minister. It is essential that we work through it NOW because when we confront the media and the Minister we must all "be singing from the same song sheet". We must speak (nay, roar) with one voice.

    Privatise/don't privatise ; ACC versus insurance etc aren't part of this remit

    Because this thread is bound to turn into a train wreck I've set up (another!) social group , called (duh) MANIFESTO. In there I will rpeserve the sane and meaningful bits from this thread. If I've set it up right () anyone should be able to view it, not post in it

    So, lets hear it.. Just give me the points, I'll stitch them together.

    I'll start with a few.


    • The principles of the Woodhouse report should be preserved and respected
    • The ACC scheme was never intended to be a user pays scheme in which those who allegedly incur specific costs must, as a group, also meet those costs in full. The scheme is intended to draw upon the overall resources of the community to ensure that those who suffer an accident do not find themselves disadvantaged .
    • Saying that motor cyclists must pay much more than presently because they are ‘responsible’ for their accidents not only breaches the principal behind the scheme, it also re-introduces the notion of fault into the scheme when it was set up in the first place to avoid it.
    • Motorcyclists should not be discriminated against because of their transport choices.
    • Those who choose motorcycles instead of cars make a positive social and environmental contribution. motorcycles use less fuel, have a smaller footprint, cause less emission, congestion and pollution
    • ACC should be requried, as public policy to take account of social and environmental benefits whn setting levies and accept a responsibility for promoting those
    • There is no justification for treating a (small) subgroup of private passenger vehicles differently to othrs. Motorcycles should be in the same classification group as cars (nb this leaves us with an issue re mopeds). And pay the same levies
    • The present method of allocating costs is manifestly unjust to motorcyclists, who must pay whether they are in the right or in the wrong. No other group in society is expected to pay for the privilege of being injured
    • The present method of levying vehicle registrations causes unjustifiable anomalies and injustice, not only to motorcyclists but to anyone who has more than one vehicle but drives only one at a time. Fairer, alternative collection methods should be introduced as soon as possible
    • ACC is not in financial crisis and is not broke. The "crisis" is an artificially engendered one to give spurious justification for actions that the Government could not otherwise justify
    • The statistical data produced by ACC to justify their claims is slanted, distorted and incomplete, and does not present a fair and unbiased viewpoint. This one sided presentation is unacceptable from a government organisation.
    • There is no justification, statistical or otherwise , for different levy rates on different capacities of motorcycles. The figures put forward by ACC to justify this are fundamentally flawed and do not support their case. (NB this leaves us with the moped problem again)


    Please add more. But keep them to the point - LEVIES is what we are focused on. Not redesigning ACC , castigating politcal parties and such like

    Keep your eye on the ball. focus. it's all about the levies.

    Mr Hitcher, your input would be invaluable here.
    I like it - good work. Get a copy of Howard Mansells submission* - he expands a little on some of those points.






    *I have a copy if you PM me your email addy
    Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hitcher View Post
    Does anybody have any contacts amongst the ranks of the organised treadly riders?
    No such thing...seen the way they ride in groups? (sorry cyclists couldnt resist)

    Quote Originally Posted by MSTRS View Post
    Um, wasn't that a pisstake thread?
    Confirmed, yes it was, back to the Manifesto
    Just ride.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by scumdog View Post
    Dunno how to put it but I feel this is the thin edge of the wedge re the levy - will it stop at motorbikes?

    Or if they get away with it will the Govt find other sectors to load up levy-wise, i.e. passenger vans because they have potential to injury many more than one car, 4X4 vehicles because they more severely injure others on cycles/motorbikes/smaller cars - as well as the pedestrians they hit....enough rambling from me..
    It aint often I agree with you scumdog but you are 100% correct.

    No it wont stop at us and that's because its NOT about the levies: its about ACT and the National parties trying to destroy ACC so the Aussies can own another piece of NZ.
    The obvious aim is too make ACC so expensive the private rates will look like a good deal.

    You are right; it WILL be extended and not just to other motorists: this is the first step in their war against all social welfare in NZ.

    If we don't raise a stink and aim it directly at the political parties driving these rises, we will achieve bugger all.

    BRONZ must be full of right wingers afraid to admit THEIR party or parties are screwing us over.

  4. #19
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    Re acc tax take motorcyclists

    The premise that as motorcyclists we pay a single tax eg on our motorcycles being how nick smith and acc have come up with this short fall is wrong, I would say from my observations the majority of motorcyclists own cars even multiple cars as i do.Conclusion the tax levy that we pay as motorcyclists is in fact double if not more than acc and nick has come up with.You can not say that motorcyclists pay only so much when you are not taking in to account their total contribution as a tax paying motorist.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by idleidolidyll View Post

    BRONZ must be full of right wingers afraid to admit THEIR party or parties are screwing us over.

    Bwahahahah! That's just gold Mike! Like I voted. Will next time though.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    Bwahahahah! That's just gold Mike! Like I voted. Will next time though.
    I can't think of any other sensible reason why BRONZ should leave the people who are driving this levy rise in peace.

    To believe this is only about levies and it is the ACC who are our opponent is naieve in extremis

  7. #22
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    I believe I'll have another drink.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    I believe I'll have another drink.
    Amen
    Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    I believe I'll have another drink.
    OK, is THAT why BRONZ came up with this "don't blame National/ACT thing?

    Balme the drink not the politicians?

  10. #25
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by triumphnz View Post
    The premise that as motorcyclists we pay a single tax eg on our motorcycles being how nick smith and acc have come up with this short fall is wrong, I would say from my observations the majority of motorcyclists own cars even multiple cars as i do.Conclusion the tax levy that we pay as motorcyclists is in fact double if not more than acc and nick has come up with.You can not say that motorcyclists pay only so much when you are not taking in to account their total contribution as a tax paying motorist.
    I fully agree, I'm not the only one with 2 cars and a bike.
    Capital Cruise and TT2000 2012. Looking forward to my two big rides!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by zahria View Post
    I fully agree, I'm not the only one with 2 cars and a bike.
    wifey and i have 4 bikes, 2 cars and 6 bicycles: we seem to be paying 3x what we should be

    the most dangerous are the bicycles and of course we pay nothing to ride those even though I've broken my back in a cycle crash and taxpayers spent maybe $50k on spinal surgery and rehabilitation.
    The only claims I've made on ACC through motorbikes have been from MX crashes or racing crashes and of course neither of those pay ACC levies either.

    Mind you, as i've said before; attacking cyclists or other groups is dumb, we are all gonna be targeted in the end

    ACC levies should come out of income tax or fuel tax; we should attack the political parties driving these increases not the ACC who do as they are told. Of course we should point out the inequalities and injustices but ignoring the smirking monkeys in the background will get us nothing but a 'discount'.

    It seems my viewpoint is not that of BRONZ. However, given that BRONZ has posted this 'manifesto' on KB; they have opened it up to the general biking public and should pay due attention to all views whether or not these are in accord with their own.
    In the end though, BRONZ only represents its own members: it is not the defacto representative of all bikers. BRONZ will do what its members want regardless of any suggestions or views of non members.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by idleidolidyll View Post
    Mind you, as i've said before; attacking cyclists or other groups is dumb, we are all gonna be targeted in the end.
    I actually agree, but it is showing the anomalies in the system has and if you target one group then target all or none, and at present it should be none as there is more than enough money being collected to met the claims


    • The ACC levy's that I pay from all forms of collection bike registration, PAYE and fuel now, is to cover ME for anything I do as a citizen including riding my motorcycle.They cross subsidise every one else except motorcyclists.

  13. #28
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    The sinister part of the cost of different motorcycle cc capacities is that generally those that ride larger bikes, are older, and earn more. Accidents on larger capacity machines cost more - not because they are faster, or more dangerous - but because their owners earn more.

    At 80% of salaries paid out OF COURSE bigger more expensive bikes and their riders cost ACC more. teenagers on 125-250s earning $15 an hour don't cost the same to ACC when their off work to the 50 something BAB on a harley earning $100k plus.

    Unfortunately for us as bikers, as we grow up and earn more, generally we upgrade to 'bigger' (not faster) bikes. Statistically owners off bigger bikes earn more (so cost more if they crash)
    o
    Ironically, owners of new cages (who ALSO cost ACC more when they crash) are set to pay LESS for their new car rego under new proposals

    If ACC could run numbers on car cost as they do with bikes (as generally more cc's=more $) - we might learn all the beemer, merc, lexus, porsche + owners are a 'bigger risk'

    (obviously we'd have to shorten the point )

    EDIT: Why do owners of more expensive cars get to pay less, and owners of more expensive bkes have to pay more

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Dave View Post
    I believe I'll have another drink.
    aint you on program fatass?
    Life is tough. It's tougher when you're stupid

    SARGE
    represented by GCM

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by SARGE View Post
    aint you on program fatass?

    Aye - Lost 12kgs.

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