My Country right or wong

[wkid_one]

Hmmm - rampant racism is not my scene.

Without Asians - I couldn't enjoy my authentic Thai Green Curry and with no Indians - I would have no Chicken Tikka Masala.  Without Pacific Islanders - KFC would not have become the fine eating establishment it is.

I think the key to success is co-habitation.  Many foreigners come here and surround themselves with their own nationality - what is the point?  Why come to NZ and congregate with the same people that you would at home?  Kiwis do this in the UK - spend all that money getting there, to spend all their time socialising with other Kiwi's.   It wouldn't be such a problem if they developed an understanding of NZ and its culture - but rather they try and exist in a NZ culture with a foreign mentality - and that is where the problem arises.  This is a two edged sword as we don't accept them either

I have many NZ born asian friends who don't have a problem - also Pacific Islander and further abroad - the problem comes from non-integration.

My rant is o v e r

 

 

[merv]

You all had a chance to vote for Winston at the last election so what happened? He wanted to help slow down immigration and you didn't give him a chance.

Wellington doesn't seem to have anywhere near the crowd of Asians you guys are talking about so maybe it helps its all happening a bit slower down here.

I've said before the biggest problem I meet on the highway down here are the oh so slow polynesian taxi drivers and families in their even more painfully slow Bongo diesel vans, and then there are the mostly white businessman who seemed to have been born before they had indicators in vehicles.

An arsehole in a Bighorn changed two lanes in front of me going round the roundabout after coming off the Ewen bridge in Lower Hutt today, so I passed him to get out of the way and then I see in my mirror he changes back one lane, again without indicating. You'd think they had blowon fuses huh! Nah it just pig-ignorant laziness and arrogance not to drive properly.

So I would have to say I don't see much bad driving from Asians.

[MikeL]

Racism = pre-judging a person solely on the basis of ethnicity. Racism is inherently unfair, because it assumes that any individual will conform to a pre-determined stereotype.

Unfortunately the word "racism" has also come to mean any attitude that is critical of the behaviour of ethnic groups as a whole, or of social or demographic trends involving particular ethnic groups. To stifle rational debate on these issues with accusations of "racism" is also unfair.

There are valid and serious questions that need to be asked about our immigration policy. Integration is not happening. What we have gained in diversity and colour we have lost in congestion, inflated property prices, crime and above all, a sense of identity and community.

I too can appreciate the benefits of multiculturalism when I'm looking for a restaurant. What I resent is feeling like a foreigner in my own city.

[Marmoot]

Dudes, I can see your point of view, men.
But stereotyping is just wrong.

You see, I'm an Asian. Even when I try to convince myself you guys weren't talking about me, I still feel hated.
When I walk in the city, some whites shouted at me.
When I talk to parking warden, he told me to go back home.
When I drive, people think I'm a boyracer.
When I ride, people think I'm just waiting to crash.
When I apply for job, I don't even stand a chance.
When I do my job, people look down on me.

And you know what's the worst? I'M NOT EVEN CHINESE!

I don't speak chinese. I don't read chinese. I can speak English. But heck, they don't care. I'm just "another chinese".

Say you're not racist? You sure look like some.

Heck, that's normal, I guess.....every human has some racist in them. But in this course, you'd be looking at yourself as another 3rd world country a few years from now where there will be racewars. Wake up and shake up, NZ. You were much more beautiful a few years ago.

[Duke of Rogan]

Originally posted by Jackrat
So why don,t YOU go back were your ancestors came from,Fuckin over stayers,Ha Ha Ha.

I think my ancestors got run out of France to save their heads...

I reckon the real problem is that NZ is a small country trying to survive in a big bucks world, so the dick-heads in charge (mostly white males) decided to allow a lot of immigrants in, but didn't think of when to stop.

[Duke of Rogan]

Originally posted by Marmoot
Say you're not racist? You sure look like some.
.... Wake up and shake up, NZ. You were much more beautiful a few years ago.

true and true

but I feel its not about racism but preserving what we have (or had) for the future, note car-dodgers last comment originally.

with the sad state of the world these days, little ol' NZ still appears the safest place to be, and it would be oh-so easy to allow anyone to immigrate here and collect from them on the way past.
but how long would it take for the population number to exceed the capacity of the current infrastructure?
my point is the government has been collecting but not investing in the immigration boom, nor controlling it.

[Motu]

I'm not rasist Jack,far from it (I have holes in my cheeks from tongue damage) it's the lowering of driving standards that gets me - we need better drivers in this day and age....lots of Asians and East Europeans have never owned a car before they came here,we grew up with them in our blood.They need intense education in this matter,not special easy license tests and sent out on the road to cope - they are in over their heads.

I employed a Chinese guy because I want to help him realise a dream he had living in a world I can't comprehend - it's a tough road for me,but I want him to learn about us and our country,maybe I can learn something from him....I don't care - he's happy,I'm humble.

[matthewt]

I think the perception of asian drivers has a lot to do with how easy it is to get a license here compared to overseas. I lived in South East Asia for nearly 3 years and I never once thought the ability of the general driver population was below any other city I've been to.

I was based in Singapore and when the locals were explaining to me the amount of work they had to do to get their license I couldn't believe it. They have to do far more than we do, couple this with the fact that most don't drive because it's not practical to own a car in some grid-locked cities when the public transport is usually fairly good (like most high density cities). To put things in perspective Singapore has nearly the population on NZ in an area the size of Lake Taupo.

So then you get some young asians come over here to study or whatever, they buy a car becuase it's not practical to rely on public transport here and they aren't getting the amount of training they would get at home. A lot probably don't have the sort of family support that I had when I learnt to drive.

Part of this also is that whenever an asian is involved in a traffic related incident then it tends to play to the stereo-type because it sticks in our mind. It's like this, I own a MV and dropped it in April crossing rail tracks in the wet. Now I was being careful and I'm sure I won't be the last person to do that but you wouldn't believe the number of people who knew the details of that event. It's not because the spill was of any interest except that a MV was involved. Likewise we tend to remember all the shitty things an asian driver may do while forgetting the other 90% of drivers because they don't seem of interest to us except for doing something stupid while driving.

I know what it's like to be the odd one out in a big city and it's not pretty.

[Marmoot]

exactly, and don't you think stereotyping and judging/prejudicing people by their look alone is classified as racism?

One other thing, though, we tend to overlook this problem when concerning about driving attitude is that the public transport in NZ (and especially Auckland) is not developed well enough to be efficient.
For instance, if I take bus to go to work it will cost me $6 a day while a car (including gas, depreciation and maintenance) is costing me much less than that. Plus, there is the extraordinary wait time (around 1 bus every hour) and great walking distance to bus stop (about 1km).
Now, if the common situation is like this, surely people tend to get cars as soon as they can afford it just to avoid public system, right? That could be where the problem started.

[Motu]

Interesting that you put stereotyping in with rasisim Marmoot,coming to work this morning I was thinking of posting about this.

I hate being called rasist(my wife does) but I'm happy to be a stereotypist....because that's what I am - I put people into boxes with labels.Unfortunatly most of these labels give a country of origin or race,it's easy and it works.

Damn,getting busy here,maybe I'll come back later,maybe not.

[bikerboy]

Well interesting thread guys. I think MikeL, mathiew, Wikid and Marmoot make good points.

I think some of the things "we" call racism are just frustrations being vented without real malice. I am not a NZ'er and when I came here had lived in a city with a large visible asian ciommunity. I never really thought of these "people" as different. But, I think the reason was despite their pride of culture and semi detachment most of these people were second and third genereation americans, so they really thought and acted in a similar way.

Here in NZ the "foreigners" are first generation or very recent immigrants and have yet to integrate into society in general. I must say the lady that tipped my bike over was polyinesean and my immediate reaction was typical foreigner, but just because my culture is anglo saxon like NZ, I'm more of a outsider than she due to the historic relationship.

I certainly don't like racism and try to fight it, but I do become impatient with those who don't appear to blend in. I guess we realy are just reacting to difference and change. I guess both sides can make an effort to accomodate each other, however I really understand all these comments and have found myself sharing them at times, embarassing as it is to admit.

[georgedubyabush]

Well it's all your fault anyway... You non breeders.

The country wouldn't need so many immigrants without the aging population we have. And Auckland homeowners wouldnt be rubbing their hands with glee at the sight of their current house valuation.

I mean, how else is the economy going to grow? Good leadership???

[Marmoot]

Come to think of it, BB, you actually look like Hawaian Japanese. Where r u from originally?

But, seriously: stereotyping some might argue to be different than racism. Regardless, even if it is not the same, it leads to racism behaviour in a very quick way. If you have a set of prejudice on someone, it is very easy to not be nice to them. Just need 1 small trigger and you'll hate them. Don't you agree?

In the long run, the aftereffect will be VERY bad. Why? because once you treat someone badly, the natural reaction is he will hate you as well. That will lead to race division and hatred between each other. Once it gets to this stage, it is very hard (if not impossible) to reconcile.
I speak of this based on experience. Indonesia used to be a peaceful community. Until the politics got the better of it, and the leaders started putting people into boxes (motu?). They did this based on the principle that if the society is busy fighting each other, they will be too busy to spot the corruption in the elites.
Of course, in a short term of time, people started hating each other based simply on religion and/or race. Then, the separatists started. Before long, bombs started to explode in churches, and some rioting with thousands of casualties occured (heads on stake, anyone? It is true....)

Now, the authority is trying to approach it with iron fist since noone has ears or heart anymore. It works to some extend...the peace start to return. But it is only virtual peace, in which people still hate each other and there is no sense of security.

So, take a look at yourself and think about this for a minute.

[Motu]

I think racism implies hatred and intolerance,regardless of individuals,that's not me.Someone has to prove their arseholeness to me before I will hate them,nice people are nice people.

OK,some of my boxes are full of negatives - not my problem,I just file the data.

I have some outstaning debts in my buisness,a few hundred here,some more here,times ten - we are talking a fair bit eh - 90% of the debtors go in one racial box.One box has zero debts - never ever not paid - I target these 100% payers,advertise in their newspapers and use their writing in my Yellow Pages add.Selective racism maybe?

[Marmoot]

Selective racism is very humane, motu. We all have a bit in ourselves.
Fighting it and trying to not hate someone until it's proven that person is bad is not too humane and getting quite rare nowadays, unfortunately.....