Napier Gunman ACC

[sinned]

If suicide was not part of ACC those that are bitching about it would still be bitching about if it was not.

Suicide 'is' an accident, it's not the end result but the cause.


Skyryder

Let me see if I understand this! You are saying that suicide is the cause of an accident. The definition of accident is, "an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss" How can suicide be unintentional?

ACC was set up as a no fault scheme and replaced a right to sue in the case of an accident. So prior to the ACC system who would sue when a suicide occured?

Sorry mate, I don't follow your logic - but I think I know your agenda.

[StoneY]

Sucide is no accident but the survivors are sure victims.

I am undecided on this one, cant say fair or foul to be honest
I agree with supporting the victime, eg the survivors, but cant see a bulk payout from ACC being justified

Councelling services definitely, maybe a finance plan to assist with funeral (recoverable no interest like student loan) but not a payout as such

[p.dath]

So prior to the ACC system who would sue when a suicide occured?

If this was the USA, you'd probably sue the maker of the knife, the person who installed the floor you landed on, your neighbour for not stopping you, etc

Luckily we have ACC. But I agree you and Woodhouse, self inflicted injuries should not be covered.

Don't forget we still have a social welfare system to assist those that can't. There is no reason for remaining family to starve to death, or have no where to live.

[Tank]

Sucide is no accident but the survivors are sure victims.

I am undecided on this one, cant say fair or foul to be honest
I agree with supporting the victime, eg the survivors, but cant see a bulk payout from ACC being justified

Councelling services definitely, maybe a finance plan to assist with funeral (recoverable no interest like student loan) but not a payout as such

True - at the moment - The family of a hard working dad who drops dead from a heart attack gets nothing. But a cop murdering drug dealers wife (who also sells drugs) - gets 000's.

Sorry. Perhaps if more of the people knew the mess that they would leave ther families in - they might not bite the barrel.

[Ronin]

OK, I give up. Suicide discussion it is.

True - at the moment - The family of a hard working dad who drops dead from a heart attack gets nothing. But a cop murdering drug dealers wife (who also sells drugs) - gets 000's.

Sorry. Perhaps if more of the people knew the mess that they would leave ther families in - they might not bite the barrel.

That's the sad part, they know, they just don't care. Suicide is the ultimate in selfish acts.

[Ronin]

Sucide is no accident but the survivors are sure victims.

I am undecided on this one, cant say fair or foul to be honest
I agree with supporting the victime, eg the survivors, but cant see a bulk payout from ACC being justified

Councelling services definitely, maybe a finance plan to assist with funeral (recoverable no interest like student loan) but not a payout as such

With ya on this one mate. Is there not a WINZ grant for funeral costs?

I think it should be viewed as a hand up, not a hand out.

[rachprice]

OK, I give up. Suicide discussion it is.



That's the sad part, they know, they just don't care. Suicide is the ultimate in selfish acts.

As much as I hate suicide, (I have had very personal experience with it), and I think it the ultimate selfish act, Don't for one minute think that the people that commit it know the mess that they are going to leave and don't care.

People in that state of mind are so caught up in their own heads, they cannot see past their thoughts and feelings of desperation and the like.
Everything that happens, peoples actions, are viewed as a negative result of themselves, even if its far from the truth.
They don't just not care, they genuinely believe that the world is better off without them, that the people they love would lead better lives if they weren't here.

[Ronin]

They don't just not care, they genuinely believe that the world is better off without them, that the people they love would lead better lives if they weren't here.

That's what I meant, you just said it in a much more articulate way.

[Skyryder]

Let me see if I understand this! You are saying that suicide is the cause of an accident. The definition of accident is, "an undesirable or unfortunate happening that occurs unintentionally and usually results in harm, injury, damage, or loss" How can suicide be unintentional?

ACC was set up as a no fault scheme and replaced a right to sue in the case of an accident. So prior to the ACC system who would sue when a suicide occured?

Sorry mate, I don't follow your logic - but I think I know your agenda.

Under English law suicide was a criminal act. This was changed sometime in the early sixties.

Where a criminal act took place and injury or death resulted then there was the option to sue.
As with any litigation there is rarely, unless based on case law, a guarantee of a successful outcome and suicide is no different. The complexity of each case could never guarantee a conviction but the right to sue was a fact of law.

This right as all know was removed for the general population and the no fault ACC was put in place.

Now it seems fair to me that if the right to sue has been taken away as it has with suicides then there should be some form of compensation to take it’s place.

Very few of us would contemplate the return of litigation to replace ACC but to those that believe that the dependants of a suicide should not only have the right to sue denied, but the compensation that we all now take for granted should also be denied all I can say is to think again.

Skyryder