Man-made climate change is done for. Dead.

[Jantar]

....There's been a lot of questioning of the surface temperature record, but it's stood up to the scrutiny. Even if you decide the HadCRU record is tainted because the people who maintain it are reluctant to release their base data, there's also the GISS record which is pretty open, I believe. And when occasionally they discover a minor error they fix it, tell everyone about it and estimate its effects......

Actually the GISS record has at times been shown to be even further away from the MSU record, and there are many occassions where Hansen (GISS) has had to admit that data had been changed. Note also that many of these emails are either to or from Hansen, so that record is not as clean as you may believe either.

The only temperature record that is believeable is the MSU record, and even that was adjusted a few years ago after pressure from Jim Hansen.

[carbonhed]

It hasn't been complicated for the scientists reporting to the IPCC, simply get data, leave the information out that doesnt work in your argument and your done.

Hockey stick graph for example.

Now with serious evidence pointing to the fact that most data has been "toyed" with shows that the ETS scam has been embraced by some scientists
in particular those scientists who advise the IPCC and the UN.

All the rest of the scientific arguments that you pro guys a spewing out is kinda redundant as your arguments are based on the same research which has been toyed with by the above mentioned.

What you should be concerned with is now what mandate has the government got to push this ETS LIE through (as we speak) thats all that matters to me.

History shows us Science often works for the evil and again this seems to be the case.

Spot on mate!

Every number these people have worked on anywhere is now back up for real scrutiny. Something they would never allow before.

Doesn't necessarily disprove AGW but shatters "the science is settled" bullshit.

[kwaka_crasher]

The global climate models did a good job of reproducing their effect on global temperature.

It's been shown that the models can't even replicate actual recorded changes in climate based on real observations and recordings as a start point, nor can they work back to prior conditions. There is so much that is not accounted for at all or is filled with proxy data it's laughable anyone thinks they're accurate.

[jonbuoy]

You'd be surprised, how many people from countries that are not as left-leaning as New Zealand actually think Climate Change is complete bullshit.

Meanwhile back in the real world... Which ones exactly? Its an accepted fact Europe-wide.

[MisterD]

Meanwhile back in the real world... Which ones exactly? Its an accepted fact Europe-wide.

Who told you that? Don't believe anything you hear from an offical EU mouthpiece - they're part of most problems and not part of any solution to anything...

[jonbuoy]

Who told you that? Don't believe anything you hear from an offical EU mouthpiece - they're part of most problems and not part of any solution to anything...

Who told me what? I've been aware of the global warming debate since the early days when the scientist discovering it were in the minority. Its a little like the hole in the ozone layer - initially many people couldn't understand how their deodorant or McDonald's burger container possibly cause so much damage. Or is this a conspiracy to sell more sunscreen perpetuated by the government too??

[Skyryder]

unbelievable, okay so the email leaks didnt happen? and the scientists involved didnt own up to it? and the whole exposure of this scam didnt happen.

Sorry guys, this is real this has happened and this is fact, get over it

fucks sake you guys are sucked in big time.

Read the New york times, try and bash your way out of your shell and smell reality for once in your life.


Skeptics take the win !!

Ok I'll play ya silly game. The industrial revolution never happened, the development of steam, fossil fuel, and carbon technology never happened.

Aircraft filling the skies from the time of the Wright brothers with polutants etc never happened. Hydrocarbons destroying the ozone hole never happened. Not too sure what planet you live on but it is not the same as mine.

Man has been polluting the planet with carbon ever since the the 1700's. And the sceptics deny that this has not had an effect on global warming because now someone finds some emails that have been interpreted as a conspiracy by the majority of the worlds leading scientists on climate change.

This is as silly as those that deny evolution on the basis that the bible says the world was made in seven days.

Skyyrder

[Winston001]

Climate change science is a predominantly Anglo-saxon domain.
From experience most scientific communities in non-english speaking countries generally don't believe in AGW or couldn't give a rodent's rectum about the whole thing. The populations also generally don't believe it.

Anyone have any idea why?

I don't have any links but have often read news items over the past year about how seriously China takes pollution and climate change. As a nation they have huge problems and can't change their industrial economy quickly but they certainly aren't ignoring these issues.

Beyond that, third world economies can't afford to grasp the anti-pollution nettle - it would kill their improving standards of living. Furthermore they quite reasonably say that the West has an affluent lifestyle because of 150 years of resource use - and dumping of the rubbish. Now its everyone elses turn to improve while we (the West) bear the burden of the cleanup.

[McJim]

I don't have any links but have often read news items over the past year about how seriously China takes pollution and climate change. As a nation they have huge problems and can't change their industrial economy quickly but they certainly aren't ignoring these issues.

Beyond that, third world economies can't afford to grasp the anti-pollution nettle - it would kill their improving standards of living. Furthermore they quite reasonably say that the West has an affluent lifestyle because of 150 years of resource use - and dumping of the rubbish. Now its everyone elses turn to improve while we (the West) bear the burden of the cleanup.

I disagree. I think not in geographic terms but in age terms. It's the baby boomers and older that have left us in this pickle with low salaries and high housing prices having retired on the fat of falsely inflated property prices.

We are the ones inheriting the broken economy and the (possibly) decaying atmosphere and ecosystem. We have to deal with it because we are here.

[Skyryder]

I disagree. I think not in geographic terms but in age terms. It's the baby boomers and older that have left us in this pickle with low salaries and high housing prices having retired on the fat of falsely inflated property prices.

We are the ones inheriting the broken economy and the (possibly) decaying atmosphere and ecosystem. We have to deal with it because we are here.

This post is a watermark in my life. It's the first time that I have encounterd a comment that my generation (baby boomers) are the cause of all the ills today.


I'm not entirely in disagreement with you on this it's just a sobering thought that my generation will be leaving the planet in a worse condition than the one they inherited.


Skyryder

[Hans]

I don't have any links but have often read news items over the past year about how seriously China takes pollution and climate change. As a nation they have huge problems and can't change their industrial economy quickly but they certainly aren't ignoring these issues.

Beyond that, third world economies can't afford to grasp the anti-pollution nettle - it would kill their improving standards of living. Furthermore they quite reasonably say that the West has an affluent lifestyle because of 150 years of resource use - and dumping of the rubbish. Now its everyone elses turn to improve while we (the West) bear the burden of the cleanup.

I wasn't really talking about the third world (although that's kind of the reaction I expected, when I wrote "non-English speaking". I meant most of the European Union, for example. Bear in mind I am actually talking about personal experience, not hard data. My whole extended family is involved in scientific research or is university educated in "hard science" fields, and as far as I'm aware, no-one we know takes AGW seriously.

As for China... I have read the same things in New Zealand an UK media, but I have about as much faith in those as I have in the Chinese Communist Party.

[Quasievil]

Ok I'll play ya silly game. The industrial revolution never happened, the development of steam, fossil fuel, and carbon technology never happened.

Aircraft filling the skies from the time of the Wright brothers with polutants etc never happened. Hydrocarbons destroying the ozone hole never happened. Not too sure what planet you live on but it is not the same as mine.

Man has been polluting the planet with carbon ever since the the 1700's. And the sceptics deny that this has not had an effect on global warming because now someone finds some emails that have been interpreted as a conspiracy by the majority of the worlds leading scientists on climate change.

This is as silly as those that deny evolution on the basis that the bible says the world was made in seven days.

Skyyrder

Oh, so you havent done any research then, okay no probs.
There are lots of books you can read.
Co2 doesnt equate to increases in global temperatures rising, thats a fact, and that my friend is all the ETS is about.

[Skyryder]

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/...mselves-again/


Sorta puts paid to the conspiracy theory. How many days for that too have happened? One....... two........ three................I dunno not many though.



Skyryder

[sinfull]

It's just a big conspirisy so Algee could make billions trading in something that dosent exist !

[SPman]

I wasn't really talking about the third world (although that's kind of the reaction I expected, when I wrote "non-English speaking". I meant most of the European Union, for example. Bear in mind I am actually talking about personal experience, not hard data. My whole extended family is involved in scientific research or is university educated in "hard science" fields, and as far as I'm aware, no-one we know takes AGW seriously.

As for China... I have read the same things in New Zealand an UK media, but I have about as much faith in those as I have in the Chinese Communist Party.

Talking to people in Beijing a couple of months ago, a lot of them are very aware of the importance of cutting back pollution and going to sustainable energy. China are the world leaders on solar water heating and are really getting into PV and wind power as well. Makes NZ and Australia's puny efforts look pitiful! Pity there are so many of them........