Man-made climate change is done for. Dead.

[Hans]

Talking to people in Beijing a couple of months ago, a lot of them are very aware of the importance of cutting back pollution and going to sustainable energy. China are the world leaders on solar water heating and are really getting into PV and wind power as well. Makes NZ and Australias puny efforts look pitiful!

They are also "getting into" coal fired power plants at the rate of about 2/week.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6769743.stm

From the same article:

"We should export clean energy technology to China to increase low carbon and renewable energy take-up so the products we import have a smaller carbon footprint."

Does that sentence tell you anything?

I am also of a mind to ask people to start posting their sources, because this has degenerated into a shitfight, and I would have originally preferred a reasonable debate.

[Quasievil]

http://greenfyre.wordpress.com/2009/...mselves-again/


Sorta puts paid to the conspiracy theory. How many days for that too have happened? One....... two........ three................I dunno not many though.


Skyryder

A blog? Oh yeah that did it, you win get ready to open your wallet congrats sucker

[Skyryder]

A blog? Oh yeah that did it, you win get ready to open your wallet congrats sucker

It's not the blog but what's in it. That you have ignored. Still can't blame you for that. It fills in the missing gaps

As for opening up my wallet that's due to Key but then I need not inform you of my opinion of him.

I see from the poll of ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE CHANGE OF POWER you voted yes. No point in telling you where my vote went. So who is the sucker here??

Skyryder

[Mikkel]

Blimey, I'm not allowed an opinion after actually meeting the chap more than once, am I? I enjoy his writing tremendously. I think you'd be a bit shocked at how little regard he has for his audience.

Easy now Jim, he's not proclaiming Bryson christ-reborn - he just said he liked the book. ...as did I, and so do you. No one is denying you your right to your opinion.

My personal take on this is, that the propaganda in these countries hasn't been so heavy, but I'd genuinely like to hear your opinions on this. Assuming your are willing to believe the assertion I make. I think the assertion is just as valid as when I say that the majority of kiwis believe in AGW, even though they might not be clear on why they believe it.

Indeed, I'd have to agree - emerging economies, like China, very rarely try to indoctrinate their populations.

And let's get the concept of belief removed from this subject. Despite the contentions of a few stubborn people this is actually not a matter of religious belief - and neither is evolution for that matter.

Who told me what? I've been aware of the global warming debate since the early days when the scientist discovering it were in the minority. Its a little like the hole in the ozone layer - initially many people couldn't understand how their deodorant or McDonald's burger container possibly cause so much damage. Or is this a conspiracy to sell more sunscreen perpetuated by the government too??

The impact of CFC gasses upon the Ozone layer has never been quantified. There are natural effects that could go a long way to explain the depletion of the ozone layer. Try and look up "magnetic pole reversal".

That is of course not to say that CFC gasses are harmless and won't harm the ozone layer. Just make sure to investigate all possible causes.

[Skyryder]

The impact of CFC gasses upon the Ozone layer has never been quantified. There are natural effects that could go a long way to explain the depletion of the ozone layer. Try and look up "magnetic pole reversal".

Years back I came across the magnetic pole reversal. At that time it was suggested that the reveresal may have contributed to the evolution or extinction of animals due to the Van Allan belts losing their sheilding of the solar wind. As I remember the earths magnetic field dissipates when the North and South magnetic poles are in the equatorial region. It was thought that the solar wind (radiation) may have caused mutations in the gentic code that led to variations of species. There were some experiments done on house flies with radiation but all the mutations produce an inferior inscect and the conclusion that solar radiation while mutating the genetic code did so in a manner that produced an inferior offspring to the parent.

How quickly do the poles 'flip'?
We have no complete record of the history of any reversal, so any claims we can make are mostly on the basis of mathematical models of the field behaviour and partly on limited evidence from rocks that retain an imprint of the ancient magnetic field present when they were formed. For example, the mathematical simulations seem to suggest that a full reversal may take about one to several thousand years to complete. This is fast by geological standards but slow on a human time scale.



Skyryder

[Quasievil]

It's not the blog but what's in it. That you have ignored. Still can't blame you for that. It fills in the missing gaps

As for opening up my wallet that's due to Key but then I need not inform you of my opinion of him.

I see from the poll of ARE YOU HAPPY WITH THE CHANGE OF POWER you voted yes. No point in telling you where my vote went. So who is the sucker here??

Skyryder

Not entirely its due to national (I expected better) labour, the greens, maori, ACT well all of the money hungry fuckers...........who is the sucker, me for sure as wellas the rest of my fellow New Zealanders......truly.

but it dont matter, the ETS has passed its second reading and will be law in no time, so we can expect there soon will be lower Carbon emissions in NZ soon and the temperatures of the planet and we will be saved......and if you and the other Pro plonkers believe that then you are naive and delusional.

but note this comment and dairy it for a year from now and tell me the advantage we have paid our money for, and again in two years....three and ten, I guarantee you the change will be ZERO, why of all the C02 emmisions only 1.9% of them come from man.

What you have embraced is the biggest scam of the modern world, congrats on that, and there is no I repeat no consensus on the science nor has their ever been so warm up your check books as you write away your hard earned cash to save the planet, cause we all know well that cash will change the climate.............or is the reality that the cash will be skimmed off by government sticky fingers and redistributed to other international agencies like the UN (we all know they are a winner of effectiveness)

so Diary note this and tell us of the changes in the atmosphere I think with you being so directly plugged into the stratosphere you will possibly be the first to know.

[jonbuoy]

The one thing I find really interesting:

Climate change science is a predominantly Anglo-saxon domain.
From experience most scientific communities in non-english speaking countries generally don't believe in AGW or couldn't give a rodent's rectum about the whole thing. The populations also generally don't believe it.

Anyone have any idea why?

My personal take on this is, that the propaganda in these countries hasn't been so heavy, but I'd genuinely like to hear your opinions on this. Assuming your are willing to believe the assertion I make. I think the assertion is just as valid as when I say that the majority of kiwis believe in AGW, even though they might not be clear on why they believe it.

Really?? Which countries exactly? My kids get taught it in school in Spain.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...avelnews.spain

http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Environ...the-fight.html

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2207416,00.html

[Hans]

Really?? Which countries exactly? My kids get taught it in school in Spain.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environmen...avelnews.spain

http://www.ambafrance-uk.org/Environ...the-fight.html

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,2207416,00.html

I'm sorry, but what your kids get taught at school is of no consequence at all. I was, for example, taught about communism being the only way forward and the leading role of the Comintern in advancing mankind etc. etc. ANYONE WHO DOESN'T EQUIP THEIR CHILDREN WITH CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS TO INTERPRET ANY INFORMATION THEY GET AT SCHOOL IS A PISS-POOR PARENT. The world is full of people who will believe anything 'authorities' tell them. This can often lead to problems. Ask the Russians or the Germans, they'll tell you how far blind belief gets you.

[mashman]

cause we all know well that cash will change the climate.............or is the reality that the cash will be skimmed off by government sticky fingers and redistributed to other international agencies like the UN (we all know they are a winner of effectiveness)

Agreed!!!

Well we are a Global Economy, not a local economy, not a national economy, not a continental economy, not an international economy, but a GLOBAL ECONOMY... someones needs more money for something and we're about to foot the bill...

[mashman]

ANYONE WHO DOESN'T EQUIP THEIR CHILDREN WITH CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS TO INTERPRET ANY INFORMATION THEY GET AT SCHOOL IS A PISS-POOR PARENT.

hey, but that's ok, why would you strive for more knowledge when it can be given to you in the form of a Grade C!!! no failure! no need to work for it or understand it as it's worthless in the real world???

[MisterD]

Who told me what? I've been aware of the global warming debate since the early days when the scientist discovering it were in the minority. Its a little like the hole in the ozone layer - initially many people couldn't understand how their deodorant or McDonald's burger container possibly cause so much damage. Or is this a conspiracy to sell more sunscreen perpetuated by the government too??

That AGW is "an accepted fact Europe-wide"...just because TPTB in Brussels accept it and are happy to use it as another excuse to diminish the democratic rights of the citizens of European countries, does not mean that your statement is true...oh, and quoting lefty-leaning examples of the dead tree press doesn't make it so either.

[jonbuoy]

I'm sorry, but what your kids get taught at school is of no consequence at all. I was, for example, taught about communism being the only way forward and the leading role of the Comintern in advancing mankind etc. etc. ANYONE WHO DOESN'T EQUIP THEIR CHILDREN WITH CRITICAL THINKING SKILLS TO INTERPRET ANY INFORMATION THEY GET AT SCHOOL IS A PISS-POOR PARENT. The world is full of people who will believe anything 'authorities' tell them. This can often lead to problems. Ask the Russians or the Germans, they'll tell you how far blind belief gets you.

You said it was only English speaking nations being suckered into the global warming issue? My point was it clearly isn´t limited to english speaking nations. Never mind point lost. So your comparing communism & Nazism to recycling and environmental awareness being taught at school?
I hope you are all right and it turns out to be a natural cycle, sadly I don´t think its going to be the case.

[Hans]

You said it was only English speaking nations being suckered into the global warming issue? My point was it clearly isn´t limited to english speaking nations. Never mind point lost. So your comparing communism & Nazism to recycling and environmental awareness being taught at school?
I hope you are all right and it turns out to be a natural cycle, sadly I don´t think its going to be the case.

Sorry, I haven't been back to Europe for at least five years, so I actually have a very limited idea of what's been going on since I left.
I'm not comparing recycling and environmental awareness to nazism ad communism. I am, however comparing the methods of the AGW lobby to nazism and communism. The fiddling of data, the fearmongering, the suppression of dissent, the indoctrination in schools - it's all there.

On a slightly different note. You know why I think this whole scam is coming to an end? The people are no longer believing this BS as much as they used to. Not because of their education in science and discerning critical minds.
The reason is much more prosaic. They should have waited another 10 years, before they called it "Global Warming". The weather has been shit, I actually think people are noticing the weather isn't doing what the puppet masters said it would over a number of years.

[Badjelly]

Bill Bryson is a small-minded cock...

Maybe, but in my opinion A Short Of History of Nearly Everything is a great book...

Blimey, I'm not allowed an opinion after actually meeting the chap more than once, am I?...

Of course you're allowed an opinion even though it's usually wrong. But maybe this is an exception. I'm quite prepared to concede Bill Bryson is a small-minded cock, I just liked that book.

[Badjelly]

It's been shown that the models can't even replicate actual recorded changes in climate based on real observations and recordings as a start point, nor can they work back to prior conditions...

Please elaborate.

Until recently, the global climate models haven't been run with an actual snapshot of atmosphere and ocean conditions as a starting point. A few attempts have been made at this recently (though it's difficult, as in numerical weather forecasting, to avoid "initialisation shock") but it's too early to say how well their predictions have turned out.