Only read up to page 4 (have to go to work now) but so far so ................oopsOriginally Posted by sAsLEX
Enjoys doing what he does
Only read up to page 4 (have to go to work now) but so far so ................oops
In the riders seat
I'm not sure, I was just wondering if it was bought to the track owners attention during the build stage and was ignored and a fatality happened as a result what the coroner would sayAdmittedly, no-one in particular....just told anyone that would listen. I wouldn't even know where to start contacting the person responsible for that area. I really haven't had much to do with the place. Do you really think it would have made a difference?
It's not really a valid comparison but if that was the scenario in the workplace somebody is in deep shit
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Hardcore Biker
It is actually a very valid comparison. Hampton downs is a buisness run as a buisness taking money from customers to use the track.
I know people who have written letters to the track regarding safety issues there and have had NO response to the letters.
With the now Prooven safety issues there, the track management should CLOSE the track down untill it is made safe, instead of continuing to hire it out to cover there huge investment in building it, I know it takes money to make money, but not when the potentuall risk of it is as we have seen.
RIP TIM, thankyou for potentually helping to save others
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Forum whore
Not if said customers no longer turn up, which I think unless the safety issues are addressed should possibly be the relevant course of action, the only issue with that is of course the business that will be affected and I would not want to see them suffer i.e CSBS and Hampton ride days
Down with bouncing!
what planet are you on? this is not gonna stop people going to HD. This will have no effect on HD at all... as long as they ignore it properly and get the media to keep diverting blame
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one placenta
....as an aside to the actual perceived or real problem that I cant comment on never having been to HD....this whole thing has left me thinking about what feelings a COC would be having before deeming the track to be fit to ride on....having just had to do the Clerk of Course paperwork for MNZ myself, Im wondering if I....KNOWING THERE COULD BE A PROBLEM...would want to take the responsibility for having the risks on my shoulders...
Forum whore
on the contrary what planet are you on?
Ive run out of fucks to give
Down with bouncing!
the one where i grew up in NZ and learnt responisbily means nothing
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Registered User
Yes a very valid point,Having been a COC on numerous occassions and knowing the responsibilty placed on that person,Im not sure I would want too be running an event at HD unless the organising club gave me free reign on complete organisation of safety requirements.
Having said all that,To be fair to the company behind HD they have spent millions of dollars to supply a multi purpose motor racing complex for all to use,It has to be up to the organisations using the facility to ensure it meets their minimum safety requirements and if/when it doesnt,Take the necessary steps to rectify,IE haybales/air bags etc.A classic example would be the start finsh straight at Paeroa,How safe would that be if the club didnt fence and haybale it..
Furthermore,Motorcylists do themselves no favours by racing on street circuits and a classic example of this was following the tragic death of Chris Dawes at Manfeild,Jim Tuckerman and myself approached the staff at Manfeild promotions and offered our services too fill in the offending gap in the wall on the start/finish straight that Chris hit,Free of charge if they supplied the required materials.The response was immediate.So you guys race at venues like Wanganui and Paeroa with lamp posts and gutters all over the place AND YOU WANT US TO DO WHAT !!!!
If your at an event anywhere in the country and are unhappy with any part of the venue safety,Question the organisation running the event and if you dont get a reasonable response or are not happy with the venue safety,Pack up and go home and contact MNZ and ask them too investigate it further.
The instructions are simple...
You reckon the fence at Paeroa is safe? It is there as a demarcation line only. If a bike hit it, the outcome would be little different to no fence.
Do you realise how many holes there could be if people would just take the time to take the dirt out of them?
gee wizzz
Guys can someone give me a heads up on this one please.
To my knowledge there arent any tracks in NZ that DON'T have a wall alongside the start/finish and for that matter how many tracks world wide dont have a wall there?
To see a life newly created.To watch it grow and prosper. Isn't that the greatest gift a human being can be given?
tripple dip
The walls down pit lanes and wire rope (and concrete) median barriers ARE safety devices - too protect the people on the OTHER side of them - not the people who hit them.
"You never understood that it ain't no good, you shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you" - Bob Dylan
Toxteth O'Grady
That's a very valid point Shaun. Until now, the businesses have invited paying clients to their facility and have done so with a only a theoretical (but known) risk. From this point onwards there is a known danger. What was thought could happen, did happen and could happen again. Until physical changes to the track are made, I would suggest all riders (especially trackday riders) should be made aware of the potential hazard at this point. That is not to say HDRD are in anyway liable for what happened (they are the most safety conscious firm I have ever seen). Just to say that all riders should be aware in future and exercise their own judgement and caution.
With regard to the physical aspects of the circuit. The circuit reminds me of a circuit in the UK. Rockingham, which also had a high speed turn with a wall on the outside (This circuit is an American bowl type circuit with an in-field circuit). One section was very fast with no runoff. Just a wall. It caused a lot of concern at the time and Steve Hislop crashed there which cost him the championship if I recall correctly. Anyway, eventually the British Superbike circus left Rockingham because it was so expensive to make safe for each event. It was very unpopular with riders because of this risk. No amount of airfences and painted lines could solve the fact that there was a serious danger at that point. There is a similar situation at HD. Hampton Downs hope to attract World Superbikes. I wonder what they would think of the current situation on that turn ?
What can be physically done ? If the hump were sorted that would help but it would still leave the primary cause (high speed turn with no run off) present. If the wall cannot be moved (and I doubt it can) the only theoretical way is therefore to slow down the approach to the area with a chicane or some other feature. (eg Siverstone, Imola). The existing layout could remain as an option. It wouldn’t ruin the circuit, it may even add something to what will be (when fully complete) a really good circuit which is great for spectators and riders.
troglodytam extraordinaire
But the straight at HD is more of a long curve with a wall on the run off side.
Down with bouncing!
while this is true the issue is the buffered 'crash zone' between the final corner and the start of pit wall. there should be a regulation length you can crash.
A *WELL* designed racetrack will have a mixture of challenging corners and striaghts and good braking zones and passing oppourtunities to lay the ground work for good racing!.. It will also allow riders to push to the absoulte limits of thier machines with areas designed to slow the bike down (kitty litter) if they do come to grief. And how did paeroa get into this conversation? Its chalk and cheese! Thats a street racing circuit where the safety is built around the track rather than a purpose built racetrack where the track *should* be built around safety.
Its not about wrapping up in cotton wool.. Its about creating the best atomphere for close, cometitive racing where the chance of being killed are lessened.
In a perfect world... There would be a track where every corner has 6 or 7 'fast' lines through it and a huge area to crash in if riders write a cheque on a pass that they cant cash. But the temptation to write that cheque has to be there. If this 'hump/wall' combo stays then all racing is going to be decided in the middle of the track cause who,,, but the very crazy, is gonna try and pass with the knowledge that if it doesnt stick.. they will probably be dead?
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