Hampton Downs: is there an issue?

[Kickaha]

You have valid arguements but you are diluting the impact of this specific issue by offering the other contributing factors.

If you do any H & S you would know an accident is generally not caused by any one thing but a series of contributing factors remove anyone of them and the result is normally very different

[FROSTY:Me]

You've said it wasn't the wall that killed him so will moving it really help?

No not the wall itself but what is (was) bolted to the wall so move the wall back and move the other part back as well. but this also allows room for impact protection in front of the section concerned.
To answer the question. I don't actually know the composition behind the wall but heck maybee from me saying heres an idea and you saying it won't work maybee someones gonna come up with a suggestion that can work and is cost effective

[FROSTY:Me]

If you do any H & S you would know an accident is generally not caused by any one thing but a series of contributing factors remove anyone of them and the result is normally very different

Apsolutely agree 100%
but that doesn't get the track fixed does it?

[Kickaha]

To answer the question. I don't actually know the composition behind the wall but heck maybee from me saying heres an idea and you saying it won't work maybee someones gonna come up with a suggestion that can work and is cost effective

I haven't at any point said it won't work, I just think you're making it look a lot easier than it will be to do it

Of course all this discussion means pretty much nothing anyway unless the track owners are on board with modifications to the track and it also maybe dependent on what the coroner recommends

[MSTRS:Me]

Of course all this discussion means pretty much nothing anyway unless the track owners are on board with modifications to the track and it also maybe dependent on what the coroner recommends

Coroner's inquest won't be for months, maybe a year. An identified problem is going to stay in place in the meantime? How many others might lose their lives to it, before something is done?

[Shaun]

Coroner's inquest won't be for months, maybe a year. An identified problem is going to stay in place in the meantime? How many others might lose their lives to it, before something is done?

The track is still being used even after the loss of Tim. It could take more lives as it is, the dangerous fault is write in every ones face!!!!!


NO Clerk of the Course will be able to approve this track as it is for Bike racing any longer, as it really is not as safe as it could or should be, and a Clerk of the Course has to make these decisions based on history and experience, and we have the history as it is now.

So how is it that Hampton Downs management can keep renting there unsafe track to the public

[Shaun]

If you do any H & S you would know an accident is generally not caused by any one thing but a series of contributing factors remove anyone of them and the result is normally very different

Cemantics? mate! The wall with the polls bolted to them Killed Tim

[Kickaha]

Cemantics? mate! The wall with the polls bolted to them Killed Tim

There was a sequence of events leading up to that which made the impact occur, it needs to be looked at in it's entirety not just the end result or you haven't solved anything

[MSTRS:Me]

There was a sequence of events leading up to that which made the impact occur, it needs to be looked at in it's entirety not just the end result or you haven't solved anything

Agreed. But...
That series of events may have been random, and difficult to replicate. But with a bunch of bikes belting around the track, it's just a matter of time before same/similar events leads to same outcome.
There's only 2 things that can be changed to ensure no repeat.
1. Change rider 'behaviour' - ie chicane
2. Shift/alter/protect the wall.

[FROSTY:Me]

Look guys this EXACT conversation was had about and with Taupo track management because of the issue with the end of their pit wall. The solution was T12/13 and 14 chicane. They listened before someone died.
What I would personally really hate to happen is someone being able to say in a few months or even a year or so's time--I told you so -look others have died

[Shaun]

Agreed. But...
That series of events may have been random, and difficult to replicate. But with a bunch of bikes belting around the track, it's just a matter of time before same/similar events leads to same outcome.
There's only 2 things that can be changed to ensure no repeat.
1. Change rider 'behaviour' - ie chicane
2. Shift/alter/protect the wall.

You got it, as has Frosty in his above post

[merv]

So why don't one of you guys in the know (Shaun?) ring the Department of Labour and report this as an unsafe place? If people are paying to use the facility and there are any paid employees at all then DoL can sort them quick smart (and even if it was an all volunteer outfit, which it isn't I'm sure) as the owners have to "take all practicable steps" to ensure safety.

[Robert Taylor]

If you do any H & S you would know an accident is generally not caused by any one thing but a series of contributing factors remove anyone of them and the result is normally very different

Exactly Warwick and thats what Ive been saying all along! But again I reinforce and totally agree the track needs altering.

If an A380 falls out of the sky and hits the ocean its the ocean that physically kills the passengers, but what started it falling out of the sky?

But I also cannot help but notice that there is a level of hypocrisy as more than a few who have posted on here have raced on far more dangerous circuits. So in that light why is HD being singled out ? Look at the debacle that was Paeroa the last time it ran ( for example )

How many racers on here have sold second hand race tyres that have been already through too many heat cycles and are well past their best etc etc? ( for example )

The coroners inquest will be looking not only at the track and that wall, they will be looking at the whole chain of events. FACT

[Kickaha]

But I also cannot help but notice that there is a level of hypocrisy as more than a few who have posted on here have raced on far more dangerous circuits. So in that light why is HD being singled out ? Look at the debacle that was Paeroa the last time it ran ( for example )

I think the difference being we (or at least I) are willing to accept a higher level of risk on a street circuit but expect more from a purpose built race circuit

[Grumph]

NO Clerk of the Course will be able to approve this track as it is for Bike racing any longer, as it really is not as safe as it could or should be, and a Clerk of the Course has to make these decisions based on history and experience, and we have the history as it is now. Quoting Shaun.

Sorry it's not in the hands of a clerk of the course...The MNZ senior steward for the area or designated person of that level does circuit inspection and approval. A clerk of the course can change nothing from the approved layout.

If you have concerns about the track safety you should raise them directly with your area senior steward whose name & number should be in the current book.

For a track day accident with no MNZ steward present I'd imagine the coroner may well call whoever did the MNZ circuit approval to verify there was an approval issued for bike use.