Hampton Downs: is there an issue?

[Robert Taylor]

I think he was referring to front suspension set up Suzuki21

Both ends in fact.

[Biggles08]

Both ends in fact.

indeed...

I have had experience with pretty bad tank slappers recently and it can be pretty un-nerving in the midst of it for sure...a little wobble can be expected but if settings are way off and rider input is incorrect at the time then this can be the end result.

I still believe the hump is a definite contributing factor in the recent fatality and needs to be looked at with very scrutinizing eyes going forward. Hampton Downs Ride days are a very professional organization and I feel they need to be absolved from any responsibility in this incident. The fact remains, a rider was killed at Hampton Downs and if nothing changes in hindsight for the better then what have we learned and whats stopping it happening again. The track management need to make a decision and move towards making the track safer for participants. There are many options on how to achieve this and $$$ should not feature in this discussion at all.

[DEATH_INC.]

There are many options on how to achieve this and $$$ should not feature in this discussion at all.

Yes, that should be the case, but it won't. Puke is a perfect example of a track that could be made safe without huge expenditure, but never has or will.
I'll be surprised if we see any changes at hampton.

[DEATH_INC.]

Both ends in fact.

Isn't it the bit in on the top that is the issue?

[White trash]

indeed...

I have had experience with pretty bad tank slappers recently and it can be pretty un-nerving in the midst of it for sure...a little wobble can be expected but if settings are way off and rider input is incorrect at the time then this can be the end result.

.

Hate to interupt, but from what I'm told you experienced high speed weaves or wobbles, not "tank slappers". A tru "tank slapper" is bars lock to lock and commonly results in broken thumbs. I have the thumb dents in my rgv tank photographed as evidence o said "tank slapper".

[Billy]

indeed...

I have had experience with pretty bad tank slappers recently and it can be pretty un-nerving in the midst of it for sure...a little wobble can be expected but if settings are way off and rider input is incorrect at the time then this can be the end result.

I still believe the hump is a definite contributing factor in the recent fatality and needs to be looked at with very scrutinizing eyes going forward. Hampton Downs Ride days are a very professional organization and I feel they need to be absolved from any responsibility in this incident. The fact remains, a rider was killed at Hampton Downs and if nothing changes in hindsight for the better then what have we learned and whats stopping it happening again. The track management need to make a decision and move towards making the track safer for participants. There are many options on how to achieve this and $$$ should not feature in this discussion at all.

Seems obvious to me and others,The hump or machine set up were not what killed Tim,Clearly it was the concrete wall!!The only sensible resolution would be too remove the offending wall(not gonna happen) or haybale/air fence the offending section of wall.The removal of the hump will only see the lesser experienced riders that are currently backing off for it arriving at the kink carrying even more speed,The scenarios for crashing headfirst into that wall are endless.
The only question in my mind is,Who is responsible for the safety,The track owners/Managers that supply the facility for the general public to hire and use at their discretion,Or the organisation running the event??I know from my experience as Clerk of the couse and MNZ steward it was our responsibility to inspect the track and ensure evrything was up to scratch and inform the riders of anything that may reduce safety.

Does this happen at trackdays organised outside the MNZ umbrella???

[Pussy]

Seems obvious to me and others,The hump or machine set up were not what killed Tim,Clearly it was the concrete wall!!

That is the crux of it, Billy! Nothing more, nothing less

[MSTRS:Me]

Seems obvious to me and others,The hump or machine set up were not what killed Tim,Clearly it was the concrete wall!!...

That is the crux of it, Billy! Nothing more, nothing less

Exactly. This precisely what I was saying a page or 3 back. Having a solid concrete wall in a (more than) potential high speed whoops area, instead of a restraint or run off system, is not responsible.

[Mort]

many people think there is serious safety issue here. If it happens once it can happen again. If the circuit owners are not going to step up and address this matter they can be compelled to do so by the coroner who has a duty to investigate and prevent future deaths by this cause. I think the only way it can be properly addressed is via the Coroners inquest in to this incident. We all have a right to be heard by the coroner. Write to him.

Coroners: Gordon Matenga, Peter Ryan

Tel: (07) 834 1756
Fax: (07) 834 1757

219 Collingwood Street
Hamilton

P O Box 9383
Waikato Mail Service Centre
Hamilton 3240

[Kickaha]

Seems obvious to me and others,The hump or machine set up were not what killed Tim,Clearly

No, but as (possibly) contributing factors they still need looking at

[FROSTY:Me]

Seems obvious to me and others,The hump or machine set up were not what killed Tim,Clearly it was the concrete wall.

Hey guys has it actually been established what killed the poor bloke?
Not being a smartass here but to me yes the concrete wall is an issue but most of the time you are going alongside the wall so impact is glancing.
BUT those big ol sticking out fence brackets are face on to you and you would go from 100 km/h plus to zero pretty fast if you hit em.
I recall the damage a simple sticking out 12mm bolt did to one guy on the hill at pukie--he was sliding dwn the armco "nicely" (well crashing into anything aint nice) till his leg hit that bolt.
I'm happy to be proven wrong but I feel an instant improvement would be simply to relocate the catchfence brackets to the pitside of the wall
AGAIN --I'm happy to be proven wrong but to me slide is good -sudden stop not good

[Biggles08]

Seems obvious to me and others,The hump or machine set up were not what killed Tim,Clearly it was the concrete wall!!The only sensible resolution would be too remove the offending wall(not gonna happen) or haybale/air fence the offending section of wall.The removal of the hump will only see the lesser experienced riders that are currently backing off for it arriving at the kink carrying even more speed,The scenarios for crashing headfirst into that wall are endless.

I don't disagree with you Billy apart from your point about ignoring every other contributing factor. You can not argue with sanity that the hump potentially set up the unfortunate series of events that lead to the Concrete wall. If you think that should be ignored then you are not stepping back and looking at the entire picture.

You say by removing the 'hump' you will encourage the lesser experienced to go even faster in that section. Is this a bad thing? If by removing the hump you reduce the risk of losing control of your vehicle (bikes are not the only ones that suffer from this feature) at high speed then surely this is a good step in the right direction. After all, the whole point of a race track is to go fast regardless if you are in a race or participating in a track day. Speed is not the issue here, it is the hump AND the concrete wall. As you say, they are less likely to move the wall so lets start with reducing the contributing factors like the hump.

The only question in my mind is,Who is responsible for the safety,The track owners/Managers that supply the facility for the general public to hire and use at their discretion,Or the organisation running the event??I know from my experience as Clerk of the couse and MNZ steward it was our responsibility to inspect the track and ensure evrything was up to scratch and inform the riders of anything that may reduce safety.

Well I'm pretty sure if they were not doing so before, the track day company will be notifying riders of this feature of the track and explaining what/how to cope with it correctly. Its like the way companies have to work with Health and safety now days, Ideally remove the hazard, if this is not possible, isolate the hazard. If this is also unable to be done then and only then the last response is to notify people of the hazard so they can take correct action to ensure they take the necessary action to ensure their own safety.

Does this happen at trackdays organised outside the MNZ umbrella???

Seems it doesn't matter Billy, MNZ banned a rider earlier this year for his alleged misdemeanors at a Hampton Downs Ride day (no official investigation was done either, it was a phone call to the rider telling him he was banned for 6 months)... Does this mean they should be involved in this case to investigate?

[Biggles08]

Hate to interupt, but from what I'm told you experienced high speed weaves or wobbles, not "tank slappers". A tru "tank slapper" is bars lock to lock and commonly results in broken thumbs. I have the thumb dents in my rgv tank photographed as evidence o said "tank slapper".

So your information was from someone else on my bike at the time Jimmy? I was there, I know what happened on two occasions and believe me the handle bars were 'slapping' the tank. It was seen pretty clearly from the pit wall on one occassion and that was why I was told to pack it up for the day when the rain came (and also cause I don't like getting wet)

It wasn't a nice feeling.

[scracha]

BUT those big ol sticking out fence brackets are face on to you and you would go from 100 km/h plus to zero pretty fast if you hit em.

Post 49

[Devil]

I'm surprised the moderators haven't stepped in here. There is an awful lot of speculation going on, along with assumptions and conclusions drawn without the facts. Any other part of KB you'd be shot down.

Let the coroner do his job, he has all the information but you are well within your right to contact him should you have facts regarding the incident that may assist with his investigation.

Mort has posted the details above.