Hampton Downs: is there an issue?

[Kickaha]

For a track day accident with no MNZ steward present I'd imagine the coroner may well call whoever did the MNZ circuit approval to verify there was an approval issued for bike use.

I would have thought there would have to be FIM approval before it could have been used after it was built

[Grumph]

FIM approval is only sought if you wish to hold a meeting on an FIM permit - eg World Superbikes.
Motorsport NZ and our MNZ however have adopted the FIA/FIM policy of only approving a circuit for one direction of use...bugger it.
In this county it's our rulebook which we work to....no one elses.

[jellywrestler]

If an A380 falls out of the sky and hits the ocean

Isn't an A380 a photocopier??????

[merv]

Isn't an A380 a photocopier??????

I reckon the GT380 of the 1970's is cooler than an A380.

[DEATH_INC.]

*cough* actually it was my idea first

Yes it was, and it's a bloody good one. And simple.

[Shaun]

Exactly Warwick and thats what Ive been saying all along! But again I reinforce and totally agree the track needs altering.

If an A380 falls out of the sky and hits the ocean its the ocean that physically kills the passengers, but what started it falling out of the sky?

But I also cannot help but notice that there is a level of hypocrisy as more than a few who have posted on here have raced on far more dangerous circuits. So in that light why is HD being singled out ? Look at the debacle that was Paeroa the last time it ran ( for example )

How many racers on here have sold second hand race tyres that have been already through too many heat cycles and are well past their best etc etc? ( for example )

The coroners inquest will be looking not only at the track and that wall, they will be looking at the whole chain of events. FACT

I am the person on here who raced at known potentually dangerous tracks, the TT. I choose to race there for the BUZ of it, I Know it is Dangerous, and it is my life to make this disision/choice.

I too have also sold used race tyres that are past there best heat cycle, but still GOOD ENOUGH CONDITION for a slower rider to use.

I have NOT intentianally slagged/knocked NOR blaimed HD for this loss,it was a race track incident. BUT the safety problems that have been highlighted due to the loss of Tim, now need Serious considerations before running the track as it is currently is being used.

What I have done, is voice my opinion to a Dangerous situation, as I did for a while concerning Pukekohe, Roads are Dangerous!!!! Tracks should not be

I would call on all Buisnesses that make a dollar from HD to pull out of there untill the safety issues are fixed.

[cowboyz]

There was a sequence of events leading up to that which made the impact occur, it needs to be looked at in it's entirety not just the end result or you haven't solved anything

the question is... are you trying to prevent accidents... or deaths?

If an A380 falls out of the sky and hits the ocean its the ocean that physically kills the passengers, but what started it falling out of the sky?

How many racers on here have sold second hand race tyres that have been already through too many heat cycles and are well past their best etc etc? ( for example )

The coroners inquest will be looking not only at the track and that wall, they will be looking at the whole chain of events. FACT

if a solid concrete wall is build at the end of a runways and a A380 runs into it cause they didnt take off in time and kills everyone then you start blaming the pilot for not getting the craft inthe air quick enough rather than the design of the runway to allow accidents to happen.......................

budget racing relys on those at the top of the field selling stuff than is no longer suitable to get that 0.15 sec out of a laptime. I, for instance can alter laptimes by 1.5 secs and still be happy. Theres nothing wrong with running second hand gear from those at the top of the sport.

[Robert Taylor]

the question is... are you trying to prevent accidents... or deaths?



if a solid concrete wall is build at the end of a runways and a A380 runs into it cause they didnt take off in time and kills everyone then you start blaming the pilot for not getting the craft inthe air quick enough rather than the design of the runway to allow accidents to happen.......................

budget racing relys on those at the top of the field selling stuff than is no longer suitable to get that 0.15 sec out of a laptime. I, for instance can alter laptimes by 1.5 secs and still be happy. Theres nothing wrong with running second hand gear from those at the top of the sport.

I think ( with all respect ) that is splitting hairs a little. Im just pointing out that there is also a cause that set off the accident, and that it will be investigated by the coroner, as will the placement of that confounded wall.

Of course its okay selling off secondhand gear, as long as its servicable. But I also suspect there are some tyres sold off that very firmly should be placed in the bin.

[Kickaha]

the question is... are you trying to prevent accidents... or deaths?

Both

if a solid concrete wall is build at the end of a runways and a A380 runs into it cause they didnt take off in time and kills everyone then you start blaming the pilot for not getting the craft inthe air quick enough rather than the design of the runway to allow accidents to happen

That would depend on why it didn't take off in time

The wall isn't at 90 degrees to the race track, you will only hit it if you either aim for it or something goes wrong that puts you into it

[cowboyz]

Both



That would depend on why it didn't take off in time

The wall isn't at 90 degrees to the race track, you will only hit it if you either aim for it or something goes wrong that puts you into it

right.. well preventing all accidents at tracks. being trackdays and esp racedays is, in my opinion unrealistic. Riders dont go to the track to go for a sunday afternoon pootle. The go to test the limits of their skills and bike. This is not a new thing. Its the way it is. So preventing accidents is unrealistic. Making a safe envirnoment to limit damages is not.

the wall is in a dangerous position. No one disputes that do they?

[Robert Taylor]

I am the person on here who raced at known potentually dangerous tracks, the TT. I choose to race there for the BUZ of it, I Know it is Dangerous, and it is my life to make this disision/choice.

I too have also sold used race tyres that are past there best heat cycle, but still GOOD ENOUGH CONDITION for a slower rider to use.

I have NOT intentianally slagged/knocked NOR blaimed HD for this loss,it was a race track incident. BUT the safety problems that have been highlighted due to the loss of Tim, now need Serious considerations before running the track as it is currently is being used.

What I have done, is voice my opinion to a Dangerous situation, as I did for a while concerning Pukekohe, Roads are Dangerous!!!! Tracks should not be

I would call on all Buisnesses that make a dollar from HD to pull out of there untill the safety issues are fixed.

With respect to the IOM TT everyone knows that you nearly lost your life as a result of a crash due to a mechanical ''failure''. That being a steering damper bracket that was inappropriate for that bike. So in effect the CAUSE of that accident was avoidable.
Having suffered the end result of the cause and finish of that accident Id have hoped that you were pushing not only the justifiable barrow of condemning the placement of that wall, but also highlighting that a good many accidents are avoidable if machine setup is safe and sound.

[Robert Taylor]

right.. well preventing all accidents at tracks. being trackdays and esp racedays is, in my opinion unrealistic. Riders dont go to the track to go for a sunday afternoon pootle. The go to test the limits of their skills and bike. This is not a new thing. Its the way it is. So preventing accidents is unrealistic. Making a safe envirnoment to limit damages is not.

the wall is in a dangerous position. No one disputes that do they?

Agreed, no dispute and there will always be accidents. But its also about the minimising of things that set off accidents.

[FROSTY:Me]

Robert your A380 vs ocean argument is more applicable in the tragedy that happened last round of the 2008 nationals.
A more realistic senario would be as cowboys put.
Someone put an 8 foot high wall at the end of a short runway having been informed repeatedly that in a failure to achieve V2 situation that ANY aircraft would be unable to stop before hitting the wall.
IF at that point in time the wall was not removed and people died then those responsible for the wall would be held accountable.
Sure the engine failure or fuel delivery or wind bomb may have caused the incident that required the safety margin to be used but it diddn't become deadly untill the plane hit the wall.

[scracha]

the wall is in a dangerous position. No one disputes that do they?

In an ideal world the wall would be further back. I don't actually see the position of the wall as being the major issue. Unlike Pukekohe's, you're not likely to hit it at more than a few degrees off parallel. However, even a glancing blow along that wall is going to be nasty as it's not smooth.

With the current financial restraints, I can't see the wall getting shifted as being achievable. I can however, see the removal or rendering of the nasty bits sticking out the wall as something that can be easily achieved.

[sAsLEX]

In an ideal world the wall would be further back. I don't actually see the position of the wall as being the major issue. Unlike Pukekohe's, you're not likely to hit it at more than a few degrees off parallel. However, even a glancing blow along that wall is going to be nasty as it's not smooth.

With the current financial restraints, I can't see the wall getting shifted as being achievable. I can however, see the removal or rendering of the nasty bits sticking out the wall as something that can be easily achieved.

Until the bike glances off the wall back into the path of the bikes following.

And the current financial crisis? When was this circuit designed?
Measure twice, cut once?