Separate Maori welfare funding

**Deano** · 18th December 2009, 08:26

Originally Posted by Tank

Why should the organisation supporting ALL be limited just to Maori - would it not be best to get the best people for the job?

I totally agree. But that's what I heard on the radio.

Maybe "they" are the best people for the job, given their vast experience with the welfare system.

I'm joking....sort of...

**Dave Lobster** · 18th December 2009, 08:30

Originally Posted by Deano

Maybe "they" are the best people for the job, given their vast experience with the welfare system.

You mean kinda like set a thief to catch a thief?

**Mr Merde** · 18th December 2009, 08:49

Originally Posted by duckonin

Yes you are right it wasn't the blacks who enslaved the whites, the pricks used to eat them, so it was karma on the whites side to enslave them maybe?..

I think you will find that slavery out of Africa was predominately instigated by other treibes selling off prisoners to Arab traders who shipped them to ports where the European races were amongst the many who then purchased slaves.

It wasnt the whites that enslaved the blacks but the blacks that did. The whites just provided a larger market.

Also wasnt slavery a common practice here in NZ prior to and following the arrival of the European?

**SMOKEU** · 18th December 2009, 09:29

Originally Posted by wbks

I didn't realise it was that bad in everyday SA! No wonder there have been so many white south africans lately in NZ. Not that I'm complaining, they all seem to be good people. I know it happens in other parts of africa, but are white SA'ers being forced out of their farms and residences by black africans, in any parts of south africa as well?

The big cities are the worst in terms of violence. The smaller towns are nowhere near as bad. White farmers sometimes get forced off their farms by gangs of black people.

**StoneY** · 18th December 2009, 09:34

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

Also wasnt slavery a common practice here in NZ prior to and following the arrival of the European?

Evidence please?

Slavery was long abolished in British ruled lands before we ever arrived here

Dont mean it wasnt happening elsewhere (such as the Cook Islanders lured and sold by Missionaries to the Brazilian Copper Mine owners) and yes it was still in existence in the States.....

Any proof? (of it happening here)

**MSTRS:Me** · 18th December 2009, 09:49

Originally Posted by StoneY

Evidence please?

Any proof? (of it happening here)

If you look at pre-European Maori history, slavery was endemic here amongst the tribes.

**crazyhorse** · 18th December 2009, 09:50

WTF!!! I can't believe this bullshit!

**Mr Merde** · 18th December 2009, 09:55

http://www.3news.co.nz/Historian-emb...6/Default.aspx

"Thu, 08 Oct 2009 6:30a.m.

Auckland historian Hazel Petrie is mounting the first in-depth study of slavery in New Zealand.

Dr Petrie said today that war captives or "slaves" made up as much as 50 percent of the Maori population in the early nineteenth century but had been given little attention by academics.

She is taking up a $300,000 Marsden Fund grant, over three years, to investigate the purpose and function of war captives in Maori society.

Dr Petrie said there were apparently contradictory accounts of the status and role of Maori slaves, both before and after European contact.

Large numbers of war captives were released from the late 1820s.

But Moriori on the Chathams, enslaved by Ngati Mutunga and Ngati Tama from Taranaki in 1835, were not officially released from slavery until 1863, 23 years after the Treaty of Waitangi was signed.

Targets of her research include marriage between slaves and "free" Maori, and the rights of captives and their descendants.

Dr Petrie wants to know whether captives were taken for spiritual, political, or economic reasons, and whether they were treated differently according to their rank or gender.

The author of Chiefs of Industry, a history of Maori tribal enterprises in colonial New Zealand, Dr Petrie is also looking at the extent to which enslavement deprived individuals of their mana or personal tapu . In one rare case, a slave captured as a child and released at the age of about 20, in 1795, became Te Whaharoa, one of the nation's greatest war chiefs.

"Slavery" was an emotive term, and English terms such as "slave" might not have an exact equivalent Maori meaning, she said. It was possible that slaves and war captive should be seen as distinct social or economic institutions, unique to their own society."

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=nz

After migrating to New Zealand, estimated between 800 - 1300ad, Maori began to systemically wipe out the abundant food source that was the Moa, times got hard and they as many cultures before them also chose not to share; triggering fortification, tribal warfare and slavery, with human flesh becoming the largest available source of protein, it became a source of food as it had in many other societies in the world where meat eaters migrated to countries where protein was in short supply.

In 1769 when Cook announced New Zealand to the wider world England was not interested in colonizing the place but so called “enterprising” businessmen came sniffing for capital gain opportunities. When they got here they found willing and able trading partners who soon began to use the new food sources and modern technologies, especially muskets, to continue there own imperialist ambitions and tribal factional fighting.

This evolved into a forty year civil war among Maori that went beyond greed and power as famous Maori leaders Hongi Hika, Te Wherowhero, Te Rauparaha etc took there iwi's on massive raids that could be described as nothing else but sheer blood-lust with slavery, cannibalism and shrunken head trading being a normal part of tribal life.The most conservative estimate is that this left 20,000 Maori dead and many in slavery. With the unruly elements of Maori and European in complete and utter lawless anarchy and the French, who had a huge reputation for violence beyond the norm around the globe, also announced interest in colonizing various separate areas of New Zealand.

It was at this time that sufficient numbers from both sides came to an agreement in 1840 to introduce the umbrella of the rule of law that treats every citizen in common to promote the ideals of collective common good and create peaceful long-term stability, very importantly slavery had been abolished in European society in 1833

**phred** · 18th December 2009, 09:56

I thought we protested against another country doing this shit back in the '80's?

I belong to the biggest tribe ion NZ The Ngati Honky's. I think it's time we got our claim in.

**Juzz976** · 18th December 2009, 10:00

I'm so over this country right now, they should not only make Moari responsible for paying their own welfare system. They should also have their own prisons and pay for the upkeep of their own prisoners.

I know this would unfair on the Moari who work and don't commit crimes but maybe then they'll stand up for their rights and tell all the scum Moari to f@*% off so the country can be run fairly.
We all know that its a minoroty of the Moari who are claiming(not sharing with all Moari) and not contributing to society, just need the majority of Moari to realise this and do something about it.

**Mr Merde** · 18th December 2009, 10:04

Originally Posted by phred

I thought we protested against another country doing this shit back in the '80's?

I belong to the biggest tribe ion NZ The Ngati Honky's. I think it's time we got our claim in.

If you are a middle aged, hetrosexual, middle class, employed, European descent male you have absolutely no chance as you happen to belong to the least represented most heavily taxed group in the country and as such every other b'stard is living off your back

**duckonin** · 18th December 2009, 10:15

Originally Posted by Mr Merde

http://www.3news.co.nz/Historian-emb...6/Default.aspx

"Thu, 08 Oct 2009 6:30a.m.

Auckland historian Hazel Petrie is mounting the first in-depth study of slavery in New Zealand.

Dr Petrie said today that war captives or "slaves" made up as much as 50 percent of the Maori population in the early nineteenth century but had been given little attention by academics.

She is taking up a $300,000 Marsden Fund grant, over three years, to investigate the purpose and function of war captives in Maori society.

Dr Petrie said there were apparently contradictory accounts of the status and role of Maori slaves, both before and after European contact.

Large numbers of war captives were released from the late 1820s.

But Moriori on the Chathams, enslaved by Ngati Mutunga and Ngati Tama from Taranaki in 1835, were not officially released from slavery until 1863, 23 years after the Treaty of Waitangi was signed.

Targets of her research include marriage between slaves and "free" Maori, and the rights of captives and their descendants.

Dr Petrie wants to know whether captives were taken for spiritual, political, or economic reasons, and whether they were treated differently according to their rank or gender.

The author of Chiefs of Industry, a history of Maori tribal enterprises in colonial New Zealand, Dr Petrie is also looking at the extent to which enslavement deprived individuals of their mana or personal tapu . In one rare case, a slave captured as a child and released at the age of about 20, in 1795, became Te Whaharoa, one of the nation's greatest war chiefs.

"Slavery" was an emotive term, and English terms such as "slave" might not have an exact equivalent Maori meaning, she said. It was possible that slaves and war captive should be seen as distinct social or economic institutions, unique to their own society."

http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache...&ct=clnk&gl=nz

After migrating to New Zealand, estimated between 800 - 1300ad, Maori began to systemically wipe out the abundant food source that was the Moa, times got hard and they as many cultures before them also chose not to share; triggering fortification, tribal warfare and slavery, with human flesh becoming the largest available source of protein, it became a source of food as it had in many other societies in the world where meat eaters migrated to countries where protein was in short supply.

In 1769 when Cook announced New Zealand to the wider world England was not interested in colonizing the place but so called “enterprising” businessmen came sniffing for capital gain opportunities. When they got here they found willing and able trading partners who soon began to use the new food sources and modern technologies, especially muskets, to continue there own imperialist ambitions and tribal factional fighting.

This evolved into a forty year civil war among Maori that went beyond greed and power as famous Maori leaders Hongi Hika, Te Wherowhero, Te Rauparaha etc took there iwi's on massive raids that could be described as nothing else but sheer blood-lust with slavery, cannibalism and shrunken head trading being a normal part of tribal life.The most conservative estimate is that this left 20,000 Maori dead and many in slavery. With the unruly elements of Maori and European in complete and utter lawless anarchy and the French, who had a huge reputation for violence beyond the norm around the globe, also announced interest in colonizing various separate areas of New Zealand.

It was at this time that sufficient numbers from both sides came to an agreement in 1840 to introduce the umbrella of the rule of law that treats every citizen in common to promote the ideals of collective common good and create peaceful long-term stability, very importantly slavery had been abolished in European society in 1833

So apart from using $300g I wonder what DR Petriem is going to achieve,apart form being $300g better off. Historians another form of bludger, for at the end of the day WHO CARES!! It has all been written before, so she is only going to read another book and write her own subjective view on the matter...Scientists, Historians, Doctors, yes they have all caused their share of trouble in this world....

**Okey Dokey** · 18th December 2009, 10:31

What a bloody depressing thread. I am starting to believe we really do have the most useless politicians in the world; I already think MMP is the most useless system going.

Think I'll head out and do some work in the veggie garden to clear my mind and be happy.