We have been using this system in 25mm guise for nearly a year and now in 30mm guise. The results speak for themselves with lap records, race wins and championships. Hard experience and results. In Australia the new Superbike champion uses this system. Developed by Soqi, no. I think Im a little bit closer to the Ohlins factory than you when it comes to information.
If you doubt this system I can find a lot of riders using this system who will very emphatically attest otherwise. Including Andrew Stroud and Craig Shirriffs who both broke lap records this last weekend.
Im not confused, when you divulge information and then the same guy chooses to use inarguably inferior shims then yes that is immoral.
Yankee, take a bottle of fork fluid, pour out half the contents, put the lid back on, now shake the bottle up and down for say 20 minutes, that should replicate the average sprint race. Pour it in a glass vessel, how's it look, what viscosity is that, has it remained constant for the past 20 minutes?
Now explain to me how this new 30mm system adresses that fundamental problem of open bath forks. All the WSS teams with access to Ohlins top draw components were using the pressurised TTX cartridge, Robert told us about this at the begining of 2009, if they'd launched that then that would be a step forward. Ohlins went to pressurised superbike forks years ago, all motox fork manufacturers make a pressurised fork, K-Tech, WP, Bitubo, Traxxion, all make a pressurised cartridge for street forks.
The reduced pressure differential across the 30mm piston goes some way to alleviating the risk of cavitation but as only one leg does the damping you have to make the stack much stiffer so you still have to consider the risk, pressurising the cartridge would eliminate that.
The bleeds would have to differ from the Soqi and be one way valves then, how big a problem was cross talk, should Pussy be worried about his outdated conventional system?
Sounds like a solution looking for a problem to me, strange how Kayaba eliminated the very same thing in about 1991-92 on the ZXR400.
I was not aware they were gas charged cartridges, but they still use the single valve configuration in those forks.
I saw K-Tech produced a complete fork that pressurizes the cartridge by using a spring but have not seen any pressurized cartridges. K-Tech is not really too big here in the US.
I have seen pics of WP's funky looking sealed cartridge but again, WP is not popular over here.
I saw a set of Bitubo's gas charged forks at a track one day. They were put on a bike for the bling effect. As it looked like they used conduit for the gas reservoir tubes I was not all that impressed with them but I have no idea how well they function. To my knowledge, Bitubo isn't really all that popular anywhere.
I am aware of Traxxions replacement gas cartridge but do not have any personal experience with it, but have not heard any negative comments about the damping.
It would be nice for Ohlins to have released a pressurized 30mm cartridge kit. Why stop there though? Why just settle for their pressurized cartridge when they have a pressurized cartridge that utilizes a through rod design they are using in the Yamaha MotoGP bikes?
Ohlins could release what they want, but realistically how many do you think they would sell? As Ohlins is a business and not a "not for profit entity" they also consider the profitability factor. There is a reason why McDonalds makes more money per year than the best steakhouse chains.
Yankee, Very good reply mate, Ohlin's can do what ever they want to, but imagine all the internet hero's having a WHINGE about the price if they did
MotoGP this and that, yea write, who the hell is going to spend that kind of money on there Road BIKE
The 30mm kit Robert talks about, is by far the very very best feal I have ever had on the breakes, ( This makes it safer and more ridable, well done Ohlin's) I guess as one leg does compression the other rebound, " The CROSS TALK" is seriously reduced, as each leg is doing it's own job!
Yea there will be some form of Viscosity, but when the fork is only doing one function, ( So oil NOT being forced in all directions through tiny holes and past a pile of shims) this slight disturbance to the oil, is Not going to be fealt by the rider/pilot.
As well all know, good fast safe riding, comes down to feal the bike has, the 30mm has the feal
" JD QUOTE" The reduced pressure differential across the 30mm piston goes some way to alleviating the risk of cavitation. 100% agree!
JD, your discription of take a bottle and half empty it, really is a short cut of the facts mate, you know that a fork works nothing like that with it's inner internals, for a start, having a massive shim stack in it, will help reduce/eliminate the effect you are talking about, " You take the same bottle, and only poor out 25% of it, and shake it again. Lordy lordy, only half the bubbles now"
I always was in Robert's face to build me shim stacks with a lot more than reccomeneded, I believed and still do, that control is all about flow rate, so I prefer a lot more thinner and narrower shims, than the base reccomened settings, believing that having more interfairence with the shim stack, would help eliminate the viscosity for a start, so I guess the idea of one leg doing one job and the other the Tother is proof to me that my thoughts of lots of shims were correct.
I fear the day technology will surpass our human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots! ALBERT EINSTEIN
Nope.... Pussy is delighted with the "conventional" system on his bike!
Whilst I can appreciate there are many factors/theories/fluid dynamics considerations etc that affect fork operation.... one must NEVER forget that suspension feel is quite a personal thing, too.
To that end, what I've got now "does it" for me. Works spot on
This jar theory.................by fitting bigger cartridges, that doesn't mean the air volume is suddenly bigger does it, less oil maybe but the missing oil is taken up by more hard parts.................so instead of half emptying the jar, we are putting a solid in to lessen the fluid volume, now shake it and there won't be much difference.
Surely a one way valve with larger return ports would cause alot less cavitation than a two way system, and also cause less frictional heat build up as a by product, thus remaining more stable temp wise.
Do seperate damping cartidges compensate for not being pressurized because of the much lessened oil disturbance from smaller 2 way valving forces.....................?
Not saying this is the case with Ohlins NIX 30mm cartridges... but sometimes what is "in vogue" isn't necessarily just the duck's guts.
Several years ago I had Traxxion kits fitted to my K1 GSX-R1000 (the same kits went in to my K3). Short top out springs were flavour of the day. In my opinion, they sucked! Contrary to the belief of some, I don't hang on every word of the experts. So I asked RT to get rid of the short top out springs he had fitted. There was a bit of "are you sure you really want this?" asked of me, but I wanted the longer stock ones back in, so that's what I got.
Some time later short springs went out of favour.
I'm no expert rider, but DO know what I like the handling characteristics of my bike to feel like.
Don't be afraid to tell your suspension guy what you want!
Edit: I haven't ridden on the 30mm cartridges yet.... and I'm NOT a racer.
Hopefully I will get the opportunity to try them in a "road" application
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