Hone Harawira says...

**Elysium** · 11th January 2010, 15:20

Originally Posted by rainman

Hone's point that we ignore our race history is bang on -

I agree we ignore our past, we should be more proud of our colonial past and the hardships they suffered as well as the technology, written langauge etc.... they introduced to the moari people. We should not be forced to ignore and feel ashamed of our colonial past because people like Hone say so.

**wbks** · 11th January 2010, 15:24

Originally Posted by peasea

Oh, you mean the Europeans that were here before Maori? That race history?
The race that Maori bashed and ate into extinction. That race history?

Hone and his ilk are land-grabbing bludgers, plain and simple. They were not here first.

"We know that there was at least one race of people in New
Zealand before the arrival of the Maori because of what
they left behind. The antiquity of the Bombay and Silverdale
standing stones and their ancient incised markings can be
dated as pre the Taupo eruption in 186AD, which covered
the stones in tephra ash – over 1000 years before the arrival
of Maori. The intricate, hand carved bas relief incising and
the bullauns (hand hewn ‘wells’ in the stones) are identical
to those found all over Europe. The cultural origin of these
many types of Proto-Celtic, purpose-built structures can
be traced back to even more remote sites like those
found in Egypt and Babylon"

So there!

This is worth a look.
http://www.celticnz.co.nz/NZ_connect.html#anc13

New Zealand was mapped by cultures since hundreds of years before Maori even claim to have arrived here, so it's not a far stretch to say that they may have landed here once (and obviously never settled), but it's the dreaming of a pissed off white guy to say that Maori came here and stole their land. The only widely accepted reference to something like that is the Moriori's, but being polenesians as well it's not exactly the way "celtic NZ" proposes... So there!

**rainman** · 11th January 2010, 15:25

Originally Posted by peasea

This is worth a look.
http://www.celticnz.co.nz/NZ_connect.html#anc13

Ah, Mr Doutré. I was wondering when he would show up.

To put it politely, he is a Kook.

**wbks** · 11th January 2010, 15:31

Originally Posted by Elysium

I agree we ignore our past, we should be more proud of our colonial past and the hardships they suffered as well as the technology, written langauge etc.... they introduced to the moari people. We should not be forced to ignore and feel ashamed of our colonial past because people like Hone say so.

Yea there's that too. White people only ever seem have their ethnic past mentioned by politicians and the general public in the same conversation as anything negative that happened during/since the 19th century in NZ, which seems blindingly obviously, to me, to be a cause of "racial tension"

**peasea** · 11th January 2010, 16:09

Originally Posted by wbks

New Zealand was mapped by cultures since hundreds of years before Maori even claim to have arrived here, so it's not a far stretch to say that they may have landed here once (and obviously never settled), but it's the dreaming of a pissed off white guy to say that Maori came here and stole their land. The only widely accepted reference to something like that is the Moriori's, but being polenesians as well it's not exactly the way "celtic NZ" proposes... So there!

Steal land? Conquest? Call it what you will. The point is; it's not the Maori's land.

**peasea** · 11th January 2010, 16:09

Originally Posted by rainman

Ah, Mr Doutré. I was wondering when he would show up.

To put it politely, he is a Kook.

Why do you say that?

**wbks** · 11th January 2010, 16:10

Originally Posted by peasea

Steal land? Conquest? Call it what you will. The point is; it's not the Maori's land.

But it is Celtic land?... Or are you simply saying that they weren't the original colonisers some act like they are?

**Mikkel** · 11th January 2010, 16:35

Land belongs only to those who has the power to retain it. Proprietary rights only have meaning in-so-far they are being granted by those having that power.

It may not be pretty, it may not be ideal - but that is how it works on the fundamental level.

Or does anyone here entertain the notion that Manhattan is rightfully owned by the Iroquois?

**peasea** · 11th January 2010, 17:03

Originally Posted by wbks

But it is Celtic land?... Or are you simply saying that they weren't the original colonisers some act like they are?

Post 23 beat me to it.

In an ideal world I'd say it's OUR land/country. If you have legal citizenship and would fight for the country (if called upon to do so) then you can call it your country, I suppose. I'm heartily sick of the grievance industry and the "give us our land back" mantra. It's bullshit. I actually wear a New Zealand flag on my jacket and I'm proud to be a kiwi. I wish I could go back and claim a slice of Olde England, a castle or two etc, but it's just not how reality works.

**Dave Lobster** · 11th January 2010, 18:38

Originally Posted by peasea

I wish I could go back and claim a slice of Olde England, a castle or two etc, but it's just not how reality works.

Liabour's inheritance tax would bankrupt your children if you left them a keep, let alone a castle.

**peasea** · 11th January 2010, 20:36

Originally Posted by Dave Lobster

Liabour's inheritance tax would bankrupt your children if you left them a keep, let alone a castle.

Not the way my old man worked things, canny old bugger he was.

**SS90** · 11th January 2010, 22:47

Originally Posted by Mikkel

Land belongs only to those who has the power to retain it. Proprietary rights only have meaning in-so-far they are being granted by those having that power.

It may not be pretty, it may not be ideal - but that is how it works on the fundamental level.

Or does anyone here entertain the notion that Manhattan is rightfully owned by the Iroquois?

Jus ask the Argentinians....... the Falkland Islands are "somewhat closer" to them than England, and they did try to take it by military occupation back in the day, and we all know the outcome of that one aye!

When it comes to modern ownership of land, we still need to follow the mantra of old "might is right"

No matter if we like it or not, it's the way it is.

**Swoop** · 12th January 2010, 11:59

Originally Posted by Elysium

"The Foreshore and Seabed Act sits on our shoulders today. Here at Parihaka, January 9, 2010, we sit under the biggest land grab.

"There's a move to repeal that act, but it hasn't been repealed yet."

However, the foreshore and seabed solution was simple, the MP for Te Tai Tokerau said. "First, put all the foreshore and seabed in Maori title. That will take away the angst, anxiety and anger that has been with Maori forever. Second, make it unalienable so it's never able to be sold."

The foreshore and seabed belong to everyone, plain and simple.
IF maori wish to have ownership, then they must be responsible for the safety of all users. How many fishermen die each year while on the foreshore?

**avgas** · 12th January 2010, 13:14

I feel for Hone. It must take a lot to live with the fact that us white fuckers stole his land.
I think he should just end it all. Go North on the final journey.