Audiophiles - TrueHD audio or Subby?

[Mikkel]

Talk about fucking irony. "Audiophiles" in the title and then this:

Mainly thinking of movies. CD music doesn't matter shit cause it's not good enough quality and I wouldn't use a sub for it anyway.

Jim explained it well enough I reckon.

For music - get a decent stereo (we don't need no stinkin' subs). For movies - knock yourself out, but you can go to the cinema many many times for what a home theatre set-up will cost you.

[Usarka]

Seriously, "CD music not good enough"?

Listen to a CD mastered 25 years ago. Listen to one recorded last week. Doesn't matter what you listen to it on, the frequency range expressed by the older CD will blow your mind. And that is shit compared to a nice piece of vinyl and a decent turntable rig.

Kind of what I meant. The CD sound is limited by the recording not the equipment. But you're right about the engineering........

Rambo 4 in TrueHD sound is currently limited by my hardware.

[Usarka]

Talk about fucking irony. "Audiophiles" in the title and then this:

So an audiophile doesn't care about sound in movies?

My CD setup is as good as I can get it within my boundaries of diminishing returns. My home theatre setup isn't. Maybe I've knocked my head again in the weeken and not getting my point across.......

[Headbanger]

For music - get a decent stereo (we don't need no stinkin' subs). For movies - knock yourself out, but you can go to the cinema many many times for what a home theatre set-up will cost you.

Personally, My Home Theater ranks right up there with my bike, There ain't no way in hell I'd pay to go to the cinema.

Having said that, the bass that comes from my speakers is imo stunning, adding a sub just fucks with shit.

But that,s just me, and my shit is second hand, My cables are cheap, My projector is cheap, My screen is painted plywood, but my big chair is uber comfortable, the beer is cold, and the experience is awesome.

[Mikkel]

Kind of what I meant. The CD sound is limited by the recording not the equipment. But you're right about the engineering........

Rambo 4 in TrueHD sound is currently limited by my hardware.

So an audiophile doesn't care about sound in movies?

My CD setup is as good as I can get it within my boundaries of diminishing returns. My home theatre setup isn't. Maybe I've knocked my head again in the weeken and not getting my point across.......

No, I think you misunderstand. Both what Jim is saying and what I am saying.

The audio quality you get from your CD is - pretty much always - limited by your stereo. (Otherwise, why would anyone be paying major bucks to get a nice stereo?)

I think what Jim was bemoaning is the fact that modern day sound engineering removes everything that is non-ideal from the recording - thus rendering it without character. I guess soul-less would be an appropriate term. And I've never thought about this before, but it would make perfect sense to do so in order to allow easier compression for digital media. Compression algorithms do not like irregularities...

The irony was not that you wanted good sound for your movies but that you were slagging off CDs in regards to sound quality while talking about sub-woofers. Maybe I misinterpreted it and you are in reality a vinyl snob who consider CDs inferior in which case I shall happily retract my initial statement.

Having said that, the bass that comes from my speakers is imo stunning, adding a sub just fucks with shit..

A sub-woofer is a big heavy membrane - often built cheaply in order to provide the biggest bang for the buck. If you want bass with good definition a smaller speaker with longer travel will give a better result as it is more responsive. My 90W speakers have got 4.5" bass units - the still provide a very good sound depth due to the fact they have a long range of travel. Driven by a 60W amplifier they manage to produce all the sound you'd want in your living room.

[bungbung]

FYI, FreeView don't transmit in DTS or any of the other digital surround options. You have to be able to decode plain old [analogue] Dolby Prologic to get "surround" for FreeView movies so encoded. Prologic can be delivered via plain old RCA audio cables, or fancy optical (but pretty much makes no difference).
Although you will want an HDMI connection to your TV if you can (and assume you TV can display HD).

Just in case you were thinking of running your TV via it ...

I'm uncertain about freeview via sat, but freeview via dtt can/does supply 5.1 sound, TV3 movies mostly. (Dolby not DTS)

[p.dath]

I'm uncertain about freeview via sat, but freeview via dtt can/does supply 5.1 sound, TV3 movies mostly. (Dolby not DTS)

I think satellite gives you only stereo.

Via UHF you get a PCM signal - but it is effectively only a stero signal. You need an amp capable of "processing" the left and right channels using Dolby Prologic I or II so that you can get front and rear. Note that Prologic does not give you "true" 5.1. It is a processed signal to give that appearance.

Freeeview could deliver 5.1 DTS or Digital Dolby, but it would chew a lot more bandwidth. And at this stage, I think they would rather deliver more channels, as opposed to fewer channels with 5.1 surround sound.
But who knows what might happen in the future.

[Hoon]

I'd get a sub first. For movies a sub should be the first thing you get as it makes even the shittiest of speaker setups sound better. I've built my Home Theatre up piece by piece over the last 18 months (currently Wharfedales 2 x 9.6's, 4 x 9.1's, 9.1 cs and a Sony sub through Onkyo 304E and Sony Bravia W40" with Windows 7 MediaPC), a 7.1 HDMI amp (looking at the Onkyo SR607) is the last piece of the puzzle but I'm not entirely sold on DolbyHD or Bluray yet. A PS3 was the plan but since getting a media PC 99% of the movies I watch are HD downloads from the net. Not only do you get them months before the titles get released but they are also *cough* free so I can't see myself ever buying a Bluray movie now.
Once my broadband cap/speed improves and I start downloading full bluray rips then I might look at going 7.1 but until then I'm more than happy with 720p 5.1 rips. So yeah get a decent sub - will cost you shitloads less than a 7.1 HDMI amp too.

[bungbung]

I think satellite gives you only stereo.

Via UHF you get a PCM signal - but it is effectively only a stero signal. You need an amp capable of "processing" the left and right channels using Dolby Prologic I or II so that you can get front and rear. Note that Prologic does not give you "true" 5.1. It is a processed signal to give that appearance.

Freeeview could deliver 5.1 DTS or Digital Dolby, but it would chew a lot more bandwidth. And at this stage, I think they would rather deliver more channels, as opposed to fewer channels with 5.1 surround sound.
But who knows what might happen in the future.

DTT can and does supply 5.1 end of story. Look up the specs here:

http://www.freeviewnz.tv/images/uplo...pec%20v1_3.pdf

I had a DTT box, now I have a Tivo. They feed my receiver through toslink, and the receiver identifies which system is being used as you change channel.

[Usarka]

No, I think you misunderstand. Both what Jim is saying and what I am saying.

I can't be arsed arguing, but try looking at intent rather than being so semantic. I know what you and Jim are saying and I agree, but yeah I probably put some words in the wrong place and got some stuff mixed up, i'm stupid sue me.

[steve_t]

I vote Amp. Sub can be added later! I have a Sony STR-DA5400ES. It's awesome except some of the HDMI switching can be temperamental. 6 HDMI ins and 2 HDMI outs mean I can have both the TV and projector hooked up and switch between the 2. I also have Wharfedale 9.6R, and 9.1R surrounds. They aren't totally awesome but I think they're great value for money when you can get them so cheap thru that Autosounz guy.
Get good speaker cables but DO NOT SPEND HEAPS ON HDMI CABLES that are less than 3m. It's a have! Cheap ones are just as good if the connectors are soldered well. Sorry for shouting

[CookMySock]

My major life issue is that Blu-Ray has proper "master" sound, and I can't take advantage of it without streaming PCM or the high def signal both of which require HDMi audio. Woe is me.

LOL you have a simple life then. Can I have it?

WTF yo self!? My floorstanders go down to 32Hz. Your sub must be a cardboard fridge box with a glad-wrap tube periscope.....

It was (I sold it) a 50L ported box with a single 10inch DM/DVC driver with 900WRMS into it. 26Hz @ 130dBA is fucking mind-bending. It's like a mountain on your head. ThuuUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNduuuuuhhhhhhh. MuunNNNNNNNNNTTTTTTTTTT!!!!! Yum.

Really weird in movies, especially in action movies. The 0.00001 percent of the movie that really makes it speak feels like it just removed the corner of your house. Get one!

Having said that, the bass that comes from my speakers is imo stunning, adding a sub just fucks with shit.

Thats ridiculous. No sub = dumb.

Good subs mix with a full system and add depth where needed. They should not be over powering. They should not be big ass " fucking devastating" dooof- doooof - that is normally left to little boi racers with their cheap ass shitty sound boxes.

Which is why I said to not buy a bass boom-box. And a little bit overpowering bass here and there doesn't go amiss.. (/me tapes eyes back in sockets..)

Get the sub. Get (or build) a good one. You want the (puts on deep voice) deeeepest possible bass extension you can get, with plenty of power behind it as well. Tell them you want a theatrical sub, not a musical one.

Steve

[Kendog]

With the continued practice of fucking up..........other wise words ......

I read you post agreeing with every word.
I feel a night with some old CD's, the surround sound amp set to as straight a path as it can get to the speakers and some cold beers coming on.

[avgas]

Contrary to what EVERYONE has said here......go listen to some stuff to get a perspective.
I used to have many a great audiophile tell me what is "the best". Only to find they were more sold on the idea than the sound.
It took me 2 years to find the computer speakers that sounded 'good' to me (concluded on ATP3's).
My recommendation is pretty simple - walk into a store and say.
"I want a surround sound setup for my PS3" and buy the best sounding 1.
I have spent weeks trying to get the "component" formula for good sound correct.....only to have it obliterated by the next "$500 Polk Audio 5.1" setups.

[steve_t]

Contrary to what EVERYONE has said here......go listen to some stuff to get a perspective.
I used to have many a great audiophile tell me what is "the best". Only to find they were more sold on the idea than the sound.
It took me 2 years to find the computer speakers that sounded 'good' to me (concluded on ATP3's).
My recommendation is pretty simple - walk into a store and say.
"I want a surround sound setup for my PS3" and buy the best sounding 1.
I have spent weeks trying to get the "component" formula for good sound correct.....only to have it obliterated by the next "$500 Polk Audio 5.1" setups.

Huh? I thought the question was "amp or sub"