Prince William

[Oscar]

Which most emphatically does not provide for individual constitutional rights.

The Bill of Rights is your friend...

[Mikkel]

I know how to, it's just easier to write in them.

May be, but it makes it very difficult to respond to your statements since quotes aren't included in quotes.

Look, I don't know F all about the UK, nor care about it, to be honest. I just think that such a large transformation uses (as you admit) vast resources from money to human hours spent on something that doesn't change a thing about the place, not to mention fucking up the next 200 years with a poorly made constitution, because you (and others) somehow trust this batch of politicians to make such a thing.

Dare I suggest that it would be appropriate to take some interest in the history of the UK? Not only has it had a significant impact upon your country, but also upon global politics and technological and ideological evolution - besides it's a very interesting story filled with action, intrigue and greed, you will be entertained I promise.

You assume that a new constitution would have to be poorly made - how about some good old kiwi ingenuity? (Although the No.8 wire won't cut it this time I am afraid.) Fucking up 200 years? Well, we've managed to make do with a sub-standard one for 160 years now... perhaps it would make sense to address the issue? Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that we throw it all out and start from scratch - but a revision might be in order.

Social change can happen progressively over time - but sometimes it is necessary to take significant discrete steps in order to set things right. Any legal document written more than 50 years ago would have been written in quite a different reality from what we are living in today.

Do you really think that most NZers think about themselves as in a country with some kind of "gold diggers and maoris" world like you describe?

Not most - but there's a lot more of nasty shit like that than most people are happy to admit. At least it isn't as bad as where I am coming from...

Heres my take on NZ's status Re: forming an identity for ourselves: Absolutely nothing about what makes me proud to be a kiwi changes if it becomes a republic. Sure, we can say we are finally truely independant... But do you really believe that it would make us more independant than we are now? As other people pointed out here, NZ relies heavily on other countries and because of this we would still be viewed and interacted with by other countries exactly the same. Don't get snippy because I'm making a broad statement here, but do you think that we wouldn't be "obliged" to "assist" America in Afghanistan and any future wars if we were a republic, or have any less distance from "the queen"'s influence?

Being a kiwi is nothing to be proud of - you've done nothing to achieve that status and it doesn't make you better than anyone else. So let's cut out the nationalistic nonsense.
All countries depend upon other countries - always have always will. And I am not just talking about military alliances.
And you keep on saying "if it becomes a republic" I must repeat, I am not saying it should become a republic. It's not a black and white world of monarchy versus republic. And no, I am no statesman and I have no real suggestions. But the current configuration does seem more than a bit odd really. And with the direction that the UK is headed these days cutting all constitutional ties with them would seem to prudent decision.

At least The Royals give the old dears something to be interested in.

Doesn't mean they stop complaining though...

[Oscar]

Being a kiwi is nothing to be proud of - you've done nothing to achieve that status and it doesn't make you better than anyone else. So let's cut out the nationalistic nonsense.

That's the most sense anyone's made in the joint for a long time.

[wbks]

May be, but it makes it very difficult to respond to your statements since quotes aren't included in quotes.

Happy?

You assume that a new constitution would have to be poorly made - how about some good old kiwi ingenuity? (Although the No.8 wire won't cut it this time I am afraid.) Fucking up 200 years? Well, we've managed to make do with a sub-standard one for 160 years now... perhaps it would make sense to address the issue? Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting that we throw it all out and start from scratch - but a revision might be in order.

Like you said later in this post, social change can happen progressively over time, and I believe that most of the problems in NZ are better sorted via that path than (what you keep saying you don't advocate), republicanism.

Any legal document written more than 50 years ago would have been written in quite a different reality from what we are living in today.

That's a good point. But such important legal documents can't just change after someone deems that there has been a significant stage of change in the world legally, can they? If they could there would be no point in it, it wouldn't be a governing document, just a document that changes to suit your behavior.

Not most - but there's a lot more of nasty shit like that than most people are happy to admit. At least it isn't as bad as where I am coming from...

I don't know where you're from, but though there is a lot more nasty shit than people like to admit, NZ seems to rate pretty highly among people who live here, regardless of "nationalistic nonsense", many of whom are either from another part of the world or have experience living outside of NZ for comparison.

Being a kiwi is nothing to be proud of - you've done nothing to achieve that status and it doesn't make you better than anyone else. So let's cut out the nationalistic nonsense.

Maybe we're thinking along different lines here... I'm not claiming it makes me better than anyone else, but many people have done something to achieve that status, no matter how small it is. So if you were thinking of some kind of blind patriotism, you're misguided by thinking that of me. I have my reasons, and they are real examples from my short time here, it's not just naive support like angry football fans cheering for their team regardless of what happens, which I admit seems to be what much patriotism is.

[Big Dave]

President Rick Parfitt? I like your thinking.

The Party Ain't Over Yet