Bullshit speeding ticket from arrogant cop. Complaint

[Katman]

Don't take it too hard mate, unfortunately, you were in front of JPs. You really need something concrete (not just your word vs cops word - GPS, pictures, video, audio etc) in order to beat a cop in front of JPs.

I defended a speeding ticket in front of a couple of JPs a couple of years back.

The cop blatantly lied under oath and the JP's swallowed every bit of it. Needless to say I was found guilty.

I appealed and the judge who heard the appeal agreed that the cop had lied (although he was careful not to use those words) and that the JP's had performed their role badly. He ordered a re-hearing which was subsequently dropped.

JP's are a fucking joke in a court situation. They should stick to being marriage celebrants.

[Swoop]

JP's are a fucking joke in a court situation. They should stick to being marriage celebrants.

I find myself agreeing with you.

They are merely a small cog in a larger machine, which would still function quite well without them.

[DougieNZ]

I find myself agreeing with you.

They are merely a small cog in a larger machine, which would still function quite well without them.

I think you are being quite harsh there. Being a JP isn't just about taking abuse on the KiwiBiker site......

There are also ministerial functions to being a JP which involves helping the community with statutory declarations, certified photocopies and all sorts of statutory documentation. They often can be found giving up their own time unpaid in a community service role. They assist people in their workplace, home, and local community centre on countless occasions. That is without even taking in to account the countless hours they spend supporting the judicial system. They are giving up a lot of of time to help the community out.

And just to sort out another small myth - being a JP does not automatically make you a marriage celebrant. There is a separate application process to follow - and JP's have no preference over anyone else.

I will not comment on individual cases - but I happen to know that JP's go through extensive and ongoing training to sit on the bench. Without them hearing matters there would be a LONG wait for many cases to be heard. I think you would find that without them, the "machine" would fall over.

There are always two sides to every story...

[Swoop]

Their other community work is fine. Being involved in the judicial system however, is nothing more than rubber stamping cases to go forward to a judge.

[oldrider]

I defended a speeding ticket in front of a couple of JPs a couple of years back.

The cop blatantly lied under oath and the JP's swallowed every bit of it. Needless to say I was found guilty.

I appealed and the judge who heard the appeal agreed that the cop had lied (although he was careful not to use those words) and that the JP's had performed their role badly. He ordered a re-hearing which was subsequently dropped.

JP's are a fucking joke in a court situation. They should stick to being marriage celebrants.

I think you are being quite harsh there. Being a JP isn't just about taking abuse on the KiwiBiker site......

There are also ministerial functions to being a JP which involves helping the community with statutory declarations, certified photocopies and all sorts of statutory documentation. They often can be found giving up their own time unpaid in a community service role. They assist people in their workplace, home, and local community centre on countless occasions. That is without even taking in to account the countless hours they spend supporting the judicial system. They are giving up a lot of of time to help the community out.

And just to sort out another small myth - being a JP does not automatically make you a marriage celebrant. There is a separate application process to follow - and JP's have no preference over anyone else.

I will not comment on individual cases - but I happen to know that JP's go through extensive and ongoing training to sit on the bench. Without them hearing matters there would be a LONG wait for many cases to be heard. I think you would find that without them, the "machine" would fall over.

There are always two sides to every story...

With all due respect DougieNZ, four out of five JP's that I have known (very well) are complete idiots and absolutely the wrong choices for the job but there they are!

Pillars of the community? Yeah, right.

[jahrasti]

The disciplinary has been taken 'in-house' I was asked by the independent police conduct authority if I would be happy for that to happen on the understanding he had breached rules and regulations and there would be corrective actions required by him.

Now if I am reading your quote correctly, you were asked by the IPCA if it could be taken in house.
Did you say yes? If you did that is am important point.

You don't say what you said.

That stinks that it has been taken in house yet you couldn't use that to get off the ticket. Sounds a lot like they just closed ranks, and I can see why you would lose faith in not just that cop, but the system as well.

If he agreed for it to be delt with by the dept then that makes a difference as they didn't close ranks. And why would you lose faith in a system if you were happy for Police to deal with it.

[The Pastor]

Oh well today was the day;

$170 fine & $130 court costs.

The Police prosecutor spent Half an hour detailing all the training the police officer has had all the equipment the vehicle has and how it worked, produced certificates of same and records of maintenance.

Surprisingly he didn't mention the number of times this police officer has had disciplinary process against him (I'm told he has a few) and he even moved to seek inadmissible any evidence or comment relating to the latest disciplinary process relating to this incident that I may use.

He put the officer on the stand (who didn't take an oath but made a statement of honesty?!) who recalled the event somewhat differently to me. A different part of the road a different time, different traffic conditions. He omitted to mention the severity of the attempted and aborted 'U' turn, claimed I was threatening and intimidating once stopped (I wasn't allowed to talk about what happened after I was stopped because it is subject to the complaint.......nice and fair eh!) this inter-mated I was unwilling to stop. Stated I was the only vehicle on this bit of road....at 4pm on Lincoln road!!!!.

Anyway when it was my turn I was reminded what I could not talk about and that the police prosecutor would object if it was encroached on. So simply put I stated my recollection of events, speeds, traffic conditions, where it was and the police officers initial actions, basicly a totally different story to that told by the policeman that stopped me.

The two judges/magistrates adjourned for five mins and returned. Their statement was basicly its your word against that of a highly trained police officer, the differing recollection of events mean we have to go with the police officers because we have evidence of his training and certificated equipment he used.

I cant believe a police officer can 'sit' (I stood) and give such false evidence. He couldn't look me in the face, he fidgeted and twitched in his chair constantly sniffing and fiddling with his watch. This man lied today. His body language screamed 'I'm lying' yet their was nothing I could do to prove it.

I was fully convinced it would be a his word against my word scenario and the outcome of that would be a forgone conclusion. I was totally surprised at how different sides were allowed to speak on some areas but not others, They were allowed to build a (inaccurate) picture covering the whole scenario, I wasn't allowed to talk about anything after him signalling to pull me over.

The prosecuting sergeant led his boy well, shutting him up when he was going wrong and leading him to say the right things when he messed up. He presented as a very unsure nervous little Asian man, not the sunglass wearing, little man syndrome'd, arrogant, rude, chip on his shoulder type that pulled me over in January.

Anyway I had my day in court......................lost................... . lost a little more respect for the police and will live in wonder as to when this officer will stray from his code of ethics again and how long much longer the police force will support him for.

Its been an eye opener for me and I don't regret pursuing it, its just a little shocking how the police can get away with saying what they like and the judges having to believe them.
Its cost me the prob entry fee for the HD nationals next season so will have to start saving again.

Thanks for everyone's support and encouragement over this.

Cheers

KG

unfortunately, this has also been my experience of the nz police force. They will lie in court to save their own skin. Luckily for me the JP caught the cop out in his lies.

The cops always win in court - they are paid to be there!

[The Pastor]

Oh well today was the day;

$170 fine & $130 court costs.


Thanks for everyone's support and encouragement over this.

Cheers

KG

unfortunately, this has also been my experience of the nz police force. They will lie in court to save their own skin. Luckily for me the JP caught the cop out in his lies.

The cops always win in court - they are paid to be there!

[bogan]

If he agreed for it to be delt with by the dept then that makes a difference as they didn't close ranks. And why would you lose faith in a system if you were happy for Police to deal with it.

It depends on the outcome, if you are given the impression that dealt with will actually involve some action, then they close ranks and support the cop once you agree to it, then yeh, I would lose faith in it.

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

Now if I am reading your quote correctly, you were asked by the IPCA if it could be taken in house.
Did you say yes? If you did that is am important point.

You don't say what you said.




If he agreed for it to be delt with by the dept then that makes a difference as they didn't close ranks. And why would you lose faith in a system if you were happy for Police to deal with it.

It depends on the outcome, if you are given the impression that dealt with will actually involve some action, then they close ranks and support the cop once you agree to it, then yeh, I would lose faith in it.

Yes I was asked by the IPCA if I was happy for the police to manage the diciplinary process of this officer having found he was culpable for several breaches of protocol. and was assured this would include corrective actions, evidence from him (presumably to them) of reflection and assurance it would be dealt with in a proper manner.

Didnt stop the charade that happened yesterday.

[jahrasti]

It depends on the outcome, if you are given the impression that dealt with will actually involve some action, then they close ranks and support the cop once you agree to it, then yeh, I would lose faith in it.

Oh so it is IF. What experience do you base this on?

I know plenty that have had their pepe smacked from internal hearing. But wait you are right the popo wrong and life will go on as normal.

[bogan]

Oh so it is IF. What experience do you base this on?

I know plenty that have had their pepe smacked from internal hearing. But wait you are right the popo wrong and life will go on as normal.

I'm not basing it on any personal experience, just what kiwigraham has told (hence my use of if, sounds like, etc). ie, it sounds like kiwi graham got shit deal here when he let the cops deal with it internally, and i can see how this would make you lose faith in the system.

[Madness]

So, another case of "Applied Justice" in the Waitemata Policing District. Go Kelly, Go.

Pricks

[cowboyz]

Another good reason to have a GPS. It shows the speed the location, and the EXACT time. GPS time is internationally recognised as the world standard.

actually.. no!

the ticket that lost me my licence I was alleged to be doing 111km/hr on Sh1. I was carrying a GPS at the time and recorded the previous 20 mins from being pulled over showing my speed never exceeded 106km/hr

I got a nice generic letter back saying .. Its not uncommon for offenders recollections to differ from the officiers.. give us your licence.

I have zero respect for the police. absoultely nil.. They are one step away from lawyers in my book. The final straw for me was when I was assualted at work by my employer resulting in 9 days off work and subsenquently being fired and the police saying... well.. we dont want to do anything about it cause it might have been an accident. This was after they waited 6 whole days from me laying the complaint to interviewing the offenders who had plenty of time to make up a new story. NZ cops suck. End of story.

[Patrick]

You and I both know that that is not always the case

For EBA 3rd and subsequent, DWD 3rd and subsequent.... because it is their third time, or more on like charges.....

What others are you referring to then?