Bullshit speeding ticket from arrogant cop. Complaint

[mashman]

Laser?

ok... the doohickey fingamebob gun that was used to check your speed must require a calibration certificate i would have thought.

[kwaka_crasher]

ok... the doohickey fingamebob gun that was used to check your speed must require a calibration certificate i would have thought.

Microwave. But yes, it requires annual calibration and certification. But this can be retrospective i.e. if you're ticketed based on a reading from one and it's not at the time currently certified as accurate but subsequently passes certification as to it's accuracy without adjustment it is deemed to have been accurate at the time you were ticketed. Fucked up repugnant shit? You bet. The same consideration is not given to anyone who is caught without a current evidence of inspection (WoF or CoF).

There's still no way to prove definitively that it was your or any vehicle that gave the reading... it comes down to he said/she said. Unfortunately, the dumbass JPs who usually deal with this sort of thing have fuck all understanding of how it actually works and do not seek the knowledge. They've even been known to uphold infringement offence notices on the basis that they did not understand evidence and have stated exactly that.

[peasea]

Microwave. But yes, it requires annual calibration and certification. But this can be retrospective i.e. if you're ticketed based on a reading from one and it's not at the time currently certified as accurate but subsequently passes certification as to it's accuracy without adjustment it is deemed to have been accurate at the time you were ticketed. Fucked up repugnant shit? You bet. The same consideration is not given to anyone who is caught without a current evidence of inspection (WoF or CoF).

There's still no way to prove definitively that it was your or any vehicle that gave the reading... it comes down to he said/she said. Unfortunately, the dumbass JPs who usually deal with this sort of thing have fuck all understanding of how it actually works and do not seek the knowledge. They've even been known to uphold infringement offence notices on the basis that they did not understand evidence and have stated exactly that.

Chuck all that at a defendant, add a liar in blue and presto!

[MaxB]

Microwave. But yes, it requires annual calibration and certification. But this can be retrospective i.e. if you're ticketed based on a reading from one and it's not at the time currently certified as accurate but subsequently passes certification as to it's accuracy without adjustment it is deemed to have been accurate at the time you were ticketed.

That is a legal loophole right there. ESR who do the calibrations will not state anything in their report other than 'tested as supplied'. It is professional suicide to state otherwise.

That puts the onus back on the Police to be 100% sure that no one has dicked with the units over the calibration period. Sometimes the seals are broken or just fall off in the heat. In theory every time a unit comes apart it has to be re-calibrated but that gets expensive. A good ($$$) lawyer will use this to his client's advantage. Another example of how we only get the justice we can afford.

[kwaka_crasher]

Another example of how we only get the justice we can afford.

Exactly. And the lack of challenges to the system because "it's just not worth it for a mere $320 speeding ticket" just adds to the myth of infallible microwave speed detection.

NZers and their fucking apathy. It's been said that "countries get the government they deserve." The same applies to Police forces. Accept shit and that's what you'll be given.

And they wonder why I don't stop for their pretty lights...

[Toaster]

Good replies. Well, we all want the same thing then. I am unable to reconcile what I am seeing. Good intent on one hand, and corrupt behaviour on another.

This is why we should start taking action against bad cops - pressure applied in the right place might afford some success. I bet the rest of the force is embarrassed by said members' bad behaviour as well.

Steve

Absolutely. Most cops just try to do a good job, and get home in one piece to their families. Like any very large employer, there will always be one or two that give the rest a bad name due to their very public and often thankless difficult role.

The key to me was to be fair and reasonable in the circumstances. Having to be firm is just part of it, where appropriate (Wasn't called The Toaster for nothing). Law is not black and white and neither is the application of discretion.

[peasea]

NZers and their fucking apathy...

Absolutely. Challenge everything!

I posted elsewhere that my daughter just had a traffic charge thrown out, she stuck to her guns and bloody good on her. She beat the lying filth.

[Toaster]

And they wonder why I don't stop for their pretty lights...

"Hey officer, I thought this was a party bus with all them lights and the smell of booze.........................."

"Just blow in the tube lad".

[OutForADuck]

Hey Graham,
Sounds like you really got a good one there. I would say fight it. Your doing the right thing, get as much colaborative evidence as you can.

The big issue here is that it tends to be word on word and you need a little more to be taken seriously because there will always be those complaining. Its a cops lot to get complains, but compliants with substance do get taken seriously.

Good luck with the address he pulled you over at.

If it gets to court still fight it.... its not always a matter of win or lose as the court can decide a penalty other than the fix ticket price, based on circumstance. Plus you get to be seen and heard and this has a strong impact on credibility as opposed to a letter with an unseen writer.

Certainly consider going all the way even if you decide to represent yourself, because you get to be present, assessed and tell your own story.

[red mermaid]

There is that many urban legends and just plain crap repeated by people who know nothing about traffic enforcement in this thread that it is a huge laugh.
I can't be bothered wasteing my time trying to set the record straight.

However, in regard to the original post, as I said earlier, make your complaint be cause it sounds as if you may have grounds, from what you say.

[kwaka_crasher]

Absolutely. Most cops just try to do a good job, and get home in one piece to their families. Like any very large employer, there will always be one or two that give the rest a bad name due to their very public and often thankless difficult role.

The key to me was to be fair and reasonable in the circumstances. Having to be firm is just part of it, where appropriate (Wasn't called The Toaster for nothing). Law is not black and white and neither is the application of discretion.

If only we could distingush that sort from the OPs sort. Perhaps a different coloured hat that they have to wear when approaching the vehicle?

For me the dilemma is that if you stop when you know you've been riding 14km/h over the speed limit there's no way you can be sure you're not going to be booked for 39km/h over the limit if you don't pass the cop's personal 'attitude test' or he simply gets it wrong, as the OP's case highlkights. It has happened to me. It took a shitload of fighting and expense to prepare for and then it was dropped at quite literally the last minute. Admittedly it was an Ernie...

It's a matter of trust. I no longer have any so now I err on the side of caution and just fuck off at warp 10 if it's looking like an invoice of any kind is coming my way. 'Clean' license for 10 years!

Oh, and for anyone who wants to question why I don't just stop 'speeding', I don't speed (except when chased for speeding). I define speed the same way as crash statistics since 2001 in that it must be "inappropriate for the conditions" to be considered. The arbitrary posted speed limit plays no part in deciding this. Good for the goose and all that...

[kwaka_crasher]

There is that many urban legends and just plain crap repeated by people who know nothing about traffic enforcement in this thread that it is a huge laugh.
I can't be bothered wasteing my time trying to set the record straight.

Oh! Go on! You know you want to.

[Toaster]

If only we could distingush that sort from the OPs sort. Perhaps a different coloured hat that they have to wear when approaching the vehicle?

For me the dilemma is that if you stop when you know you've been riding 14km/h over the speed limit there's no way you can be sure you're not going to be booked for 39km/h over the limit if you don't pass the cop's personal 'attitude test' or he simply gets it wrong, as the OP's case highlkights. It has happened to me. It took a shitload of fighting and expense to prepare for and then it was dropped at quite literally the last minute.

It's a matter of trust. I no longer have any so now I err on the side of caution and just fuck off at warp 10 if it's looking like an invoice of any kind is coming my way. 'Clean' license for 10 years!

Absolutely agreed, It is very much a matter of trust. It utterly disgusts me to think of cops out there litlerally making up false speeds or even charges for ANY reason. I just hope that if they are there, that they get weeded out quickly. Solid constant and consistent complaints from a range of unrelated upstanding members of society VERY MUCH get the attention of the bosses. Noone wants bad cops working for them. I sure as hell would not work with them.

But is it worth risking your life doing a runner for the sake of the remote possibility that the cop who nabbed you might be dishonest. Call me stupid, but I think it is fair to say cops that deliberately make up charges and tickets would have to be an absolutely tiny minority IMO.

[scumdog]

Absolutely agreed, It is very much a matter of trust. It utterly disgusts me to think of cops out there litlerally making up false speeds or even charges for ANY reason. I just hope that if they are there, that they get weeded out quickly. Solid constant and consistent complaints from a range of unrelated upstanding members of society VERY MUCH get the attention of the bosses. Noone wants bad cops working for them. I sure as hell would not work with them.

But is it worth risking your life doing a runner for the sake of the remote possibility that the cop who nabbed you might be dishonest. Call me stupid, but I think it is fair to say cops that deliberately make up charges and tickets would have to be an absolutely tiny minority IMO.

EXACTLY what he said, can't agree more.

[MSTRS:Me]

EXACTLY what he said, can't agree more.

Trust you cops to stick together...