Practicing Emergency Braking

[thealmightytaco]

The circumstances that thealmightytaco went through were because he was leaning over when he locked, that is a lot more serious and hard to recover. So he stayed open to options and had the skills to get through it. Good on ya thealmightytaco!

Cheers mate, not sure how much skill was involved though, was mostly survival instinct, the fact I had a car ahead probably sent the adrenalin going, gave me the time-slowing feeling, a crazy thing, can remember every moment pretty clearly, but you can't rely on that sort of thing happening. Practise is good!

[thealmightytaco]

The circumstances that thealmightytaco went through were because he was leaning over when he locked, that is a lot more serious and hard to recover. So he stayed open to options and had the skills to get through it. Good on ya thealmightytaco!

Cheers mate, not sure how much skill was involved though, was mostly survival instinct, the fact I had a car ahead probably sent the adrenalin going, gave me the time-slowing feeling, a crazy thing, can remember every moment pretty clearly, but you can't rely on that sort of thing happening. Practise is good!

[MyGSXF:Me]

My question is how do you practice braking to the limits of the bike?

Find a quiet carpark & practice.

Start out only going 20ks in 1st or 2nd gear. First, practice with the back brake only.. using a gentle progressive push down on the brake pedal (throttle off & pull the clutch in so the bike doesn't stall). Do a few runs doing this.

Next try the front brake.. a GENTLE PROGRESSIVE squeeze.. not a grab!! (again, throttle off & pull the clutch in).. practice this a few times to get the feel of it. Then practice using both brakes.

The most important thing to do is.. KEEP YOUR EYES UP AT ALL TIMES!!! do not look down at the ground in front of you... or you will go down!

Get in touch with Andrew & Lynne from www.roadsafe.co.nz & get yourself some professional training.. it may save your life!

[FlyingKiwi]

Great thread. I got taught to progressively squeeze on the front (while using the back as well). As the bike pitches forward ease off the back to prevent it from locking. It is important to use the rear brake as it a)takes extra speed off and b) the slight less effort on the front end prevents the front shocks fully compressing sooner rather than later. When the front shocks bottom out, its all over rover.

[sugilite:Me]

Great thread. I got taught to progressively squeeze on the front (while using the back as well). As the bike pitches forward ease off the back to prevent it from locking. It is important to use the rear brake as it a)takes extra speed off and b) the slight less effort on the front end prevents the front shocks fully compressing sooner rather than later. When the front shocks bottom out, its all over rover.

Cheers for your input, I just thought I'd comment. In emergency braking scenarios, many peoples bikes forks will be completely bottomed out as a matter of course and I assure you it is far from all over rover. It was pretty much a fact of life for my poor old ZXR750 when out on the track. Yes, bottoming out your forks will put all additional stress onto your front tyre, but it will still not take you down and using the usual anti lock method of decreasing pressure on the brake lever will still work fine

[Okey Dokey]

Great stuff. I am enjoying your refresher course, sugilite. Looking forward to the next topic, too. Good to space them out every week or so, while we try out the latest idea. Cheers

[wingnutt]

A great write up, on emergency braking, cheers, however, I’m wondering whether the clutch should be fully disengaged immediately emergency braking starts, or left engaged allowing engine braking to assist.

I always thought it was best to leave the clutch engaged, until I read this, at another forum.

Studies have convincingly shown that in order to stop in the shortest possible distance and the shortest possible time you must disengage the clutch fully at the time you begin to brake.

Here, for example, is information that demonstrates the effect that clutch usage had on 77 emergency braking stops performed by professional riders performed and documented by the Federation Motorcycliste Du Quebec in 2004:

From 100kph to 0

Downshifting stopping distance 43.17 meters 3.21 seconds

Clutch engaged stopping distance, 41.51 meters 3.21 seconds

Clutch disengaged stopping distance 39.95 meters 3.08 seconds

You see that the greatest deceleration rate, fastest time and shortest distance all were the result of fully disengaging the clutch lever at the start of an emergency stop effort.

[thealmightytaco]

You see that the greatest deceleration rate, fastest time and shortest distance all were the result of fully disengaging the clutch lever at the start of an emergency stop effort.

That doesn't seem right, I wonder if they did the assigned thing right to 0, in which case during the last part the engine would actually push you along somewhat. Be interesting to see a test of using downshifting for X% of the braking before disengagin clutch, I'd think it'd be about 95% downshift.

Another thought, downshifting could draw attention away from the braking hand, whereas if you jsut concentrated on that hand you could judge how hard to squeeze a little more accurately. Get used to it though and you should do even better with downshift.

[Richard]

Hi
So tell me you guys....Do you cover the Front brake lever with any fingers all the time?
I have always had two fingers resting on the front brake lever and all my fingers cover the clutch lever. The clutch thing is any old twostroke habit.
It is just the way I have been riding for the last 30yrs...but is it right?
I have tried riding with all my fingers wrapped around both grips but I can only do that if I am on the open road with no one around. as soon as I get into the slight amount of traffic I go back to covering both levers.
Suppose it might give me a nano second head start on the braking but is there anything inherently wrong with it?
Thanks
Richard

[MSTRS:Me]

Not inherently wrong. Only thing to be aware of is on the brake hand...will the fingers still on the grip interfere with the lever as it is pulled in? Yes, the lever shouldn't come that far in, but it is still a real possibility. One that denies full use of the front brake.

[wingnutt]

That doesn't seem right, I wonder if they did the assigned thing right to 0, in which case during the last part the engine would actually push you along somewhat. Be interesting to see a test of using downshifting for X% of the braking before disengagin clutch, I'd think it'd be about 95% downshift.

Another thought, downshifting could draw attention away from the braking hand, whereas if you jsut concentrated on that hand you could judge how hard to squeeze a little more accurately. Get used to it though and you should do even better with downshift.

yeh I've tried all of the above, and to be honest, there doesn't appear to be a lot of difference, althougjh pulliing the clutch in and holding it at 100 kph, has the bike freewheeeling
rapidly, but still the brakes did pull us up no worries., and I was less busy too I found.

[dipshit]

Be interesting to see a test of using downshifting for X% of the braking before disengagin clutch.

Have a read through this...
http://www.fmq.qc.ca/pdf/amorce-freinage_eng.pdf

[wingnutt]

Have a read through this...
http://www.fmq.qc.ca/pdf/amorce-freinage_eng.pdf

thanks very much that explains it all. cheers.

[FROSTY:Me]

In my opinion again it depends on the bike/situation. But as a rule I'm downchanging through the box as Im slowing down.
To me its a case of --Ok what happens next??
My available options increase by having the gear you are in more or less matching your road speed.
Its all cool stopping in X meters but if the next thing is a bike stalled in the middle of a busy road then arguably your in just as much danger

[dpex]

I can never figure how to pick out bits to quote, so in reply to a very good commentary.

First. I always ride with all four fingers over clutch and brake handles unless the way ahead is clear of traffic.

I use the web between my thumb and forefinger to operate the accelerator. A lot of folk are against this. I don't care. I figure it gives me a 3/10ths second advantage...and I can hill start without using the foot brake. :--))

Second, as regards mirrors. I make it a habit to know the general size and colour of any three cars behind me while on a single-lane road. I also make it a habit to know how close the first is to my arse and how close the next is to each successive arse.

And so, if Joe, three cars back, is up the arse of Anne, two cars back, and she's not giving Herbert much space, and Herbert is right on the edge of being inside my comfort-zone, then the next move is to increase the distance between me and the guy ahead.

On a multi-carriage road I keep these scans going on all lanes. I insist on knowing at least the colours of the three vehicles in each lane, behind me.

I'm checking every twenty seconds. MOL. If the picture changes, and suddenly a red car is where a white car was, I want to know where the white car went and now is. If I can't find it, I check ahead to make sure there's heaps of distance between me and misery, then turn my head to find the white car.

While I'm in my lane, with good distance between me and the putz ahead, I'm safe 'while' I'm looking ahead. The two second blink into a mirror can close that gap at awesome speed if the putz ahead decides to brake hard...for whatever reason. So I look up and ahead in front of the putz. If He/she has a good clear gap between him/her and his leader, and the gap between his leader and the guy in front is good, then the chances of an emergency braking are slim. So I get the two seconds to check who is behind. Who has moved, and where are they?

I NEVER ever sit alongside another vehicle on a multi-lane. I presume that every driver is pissed/stoned, and a moron, who will simply shift left or right with scant regard for what might be in the way.

And so, on a multi-lane, unless I'm buzzing passed, I sit in a <. Take the top of the V as the car in front, and the bottom as the car behind. The base of the V is me.

In this way the dude behind can see me, the dude in front probably cannot...or doesn't. But I'm safe because the dude behind can't get me and I won't allow the dude ahead to get me.

I wait till I feel all is well then squirt past the dude ahead till I get get into the next V, left and right. So, you see, on a multi lane, unless passing, I'm always in the centre of an X. The other vehicles are at the tips of the X. I'm in the middle. And if some dude, ahead or behind changes the pattern of the X, I move on till I get the next X.

Also, when following another vehicle, regardless of the road, I always follow in a place left or right which a) allows me to see at least four vehicles ahead, and provides an escape gap if it all goes to hell in a hand-basket, and b) allows me a gap through which I can go if it all turns pear-shaped.

I never, ever follow behind a vehicle which is large enough to block my view of at least four cars ahead.

I hope that helps to save a life or five.