Help it hurts! Medical mentoring

[paddy]

I had two seemingly unrelated thoughts..

1) I haven't been around here long, and I haven't been riding long, so it can feel like I have little to offer and a lot to take.

2) I want to get in to adventure riding, which by it's very nature can be remote and far from help. What would I want my fellow riders to know that they might not already have picked up in a first-aid course if they were called upon to treat me?

Then it occured to me that perhaps I can take care of both in one hit. So, I am proposing a medical mentoring session. I would provide the venue and the teaching. People could chip in for pizza/drinks.

At this stage I just wanted to gauge interest before I spent time on a curriculum. I also know that there are others with a medical bent that would probably be interested in contributing.

I would propose a Saturday in early May, perhaps from 1000 to 1500 including lunch.

I am envisioning a very interactive format with lots of discussion. These are a few things that I am thinking of off hand:

* Basic first aid revision.
* CPR revision.
* Early information gathering for ambulance staff.
* First aid kits for riding. What to take.
* Motorcycle patterns of injuries.
* Helmet removal (When/Why/How/Practical Practice).
* Splinting (including long bone traction).
* Extended crush injuries (complications post release).
* Working with what is around you.
* Anaphylaxis (early signs, priorities).
* Asthma
* Shock (what it is and what it isn't, treatments)
* Hypothermia (detection, re-warming).
* Hyperthermia/dehydration.
* Helicopter safety.
* Helicopter landing zones.

I am sure there is a lot more, but that gives you and idea of what I was thinking of. At this stage I really want to just gauge interest so hopefully this will be a busy thread.

Who's interested? What would you be interested in covering?

[PirateJafa]

Interested.

[CookMySock]

I'd come along and do a course like that, but I'm four hours ride away. I should anyway, as I occasionally get volunteered as the "medial" person at the pocketbike racing (pilot, diver, 1st aid various.) The ideal would be to get some certificate or unit standard. Are you involved in that industry?

Steve

[Squiggles]

would be there

[Supermac Jr]

I'm in.......

[paddy]

I'd come along and do a course like that, but I'm four hours ride away. I should anyway, as I occasionally get volunteered as the "medial" person at the pocketbike racing (pilot, diver, 1st aid various.) The ideal would be to get some certificate or unit standard. Are you involved in that industry?

Steve

(Hey, I'm a pilot and diver too!)

Here's a bit more on me (although I have bought another bike since then):
http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/sh...ad.php?t=90028

I'm not an NZQA certified assessor so I couldn't issue a unit standard or a first aid certificate. (And in fact I am not even working in the medical field at the moment; however, I am degree trained as a paramedic.) I wasn't really intending to cover a comprehensive enough list of topics to qualify as a first aid course.

First aid courses tend to be aimed at the lowest common denominator. They aim to simplify situations into steps that can always be followed by anybody. There is some validity in this (for example you don't want someone wondering if they should perform CPR on you - you just want them to do it). My thinking though was more about what I might want someone to think through if they were treating me.

(To give you an example of this, if my femur were sticking through my thigh I would want someone to apply traction to my leg as this would significantly reduce the pain; however, I would want that person to know where to hold and to know not to let go once they have applied traction. There is a perception that if a bone is sticking out - and potentially into the ground - that it shouldn't be reduced; however, the orthopods - orthopaedic surgeons - will debride and clean the wound in theatre and the bone is much more viable if it is protected in the thigh. I wouldn't want to try and have this debate while my femur was poking out - I would want the person to just know. That's where I am coming from.)

I wanted to get into some of the discussion of WHY and WHEN and give the opportunity for questions and debate (a lot of medical practice is not absolute). I guess I was aiming at building on the knowledge that someone might already have from first aid training (although that wouldn't preclude others coming - I just wouldn't want someone to come who had no first aid training and feel like they now didn't need any - having said that, some is better than none). It that respect, I'm reticent to use the word "course". I was probably thinking more along the lines of practical discussion. And lunch. :-)

Hope that answers your questions.

[paddy]

FYI I thinking if we get to about folk interested then it's worthwhile and I'll get planning.

[Crisis management]

Do you mean those little blue HTFU pills aren't the answer?


I have a few comments..

Thats a shit load to cover in 4 to 5 hours.
I assume you are trained in this, whats your qualifications?
Is there a danger of imparting a bit of knowledge to people that may in fact make them more confident than they should be? Can they do more harm than good?

Thats all the pessimism over but I think it will depend a lot on the base level of knowledge of your trainees and it may be better to teach:




ABC's
CPR
Controlling blood loss
Recovery position
Getting professional assistance!!!

More than this and I'm not sure of the effectiveness of the training. However, I think it's a great offer and everyone should know how to treat basic medical issues as you never know when it will happen.

Edit!!!!!
I see you have already answered most of these comments so disregard the bits you feel the need to.

[forkoil]

Yep, sounds very worthwhile

[paddy]

Thats a shit load to cover in 4 to 5 hours.
I assume you are trained in this, whats your qualifications?
Is there a danger of imparting a bit of knowledge to people that may in fact make them more confident than they should be? Can they do more harm than good?

Thats all the pessimism over but I think it will depend a lot on the base level of knowledge of your trainees and it may be better to teach:

ABC's
CPR
Controlling blood loss
Recovery position
Getting professional assistance!!!

More than this and I'm not sure of the effectiveness of the training. However, I think it's a great offer and everyone should know how to treat basic medical issues as you never know when it will happen.

I think I probably did answer most of this, but I agree - a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. I am definitely not thinking this would be a woe-go approach. I would be assuming that people knew things like the recovery position, blood loss, etcetera. I definitely don't want to make people over confident (I'll have enough of that for all of us) but I do notice the questions like helmet removal do tend to come up regularly (not just in this forum).

[Owl]

Yeah, fantastic idea paddy!

[paddy]

I'd come along and do a course like that, but I'm four hours ride away. I should anyway, as I occasionally get volunteered as the "medial" person at the pocketbike racing (pilot, diver, 1st aid various.) The ideal would be to get some certificate or unit standard. Are you involved in that industry?

It occurs to me, that at your level of involvement, what you probably want to do is get yourself on a PHEC (yes it is pronounced how you think) course. I don't know who would offer Pre-Hospital Emergency Care in your area; however, I would start by checking with St. John as they will definitely be offering the qualification to their staff. That would give you a level of knowledge above a standard First Aid course and an NZQA unit standard. You would be trained to a level that is equivalent to the typical "community services" or "events" folk that St. John has standing around at events.

[BOGAR]

I have done first aid for a long time (still not great at it as i have never used it) but I would be interested in the aspect of (specific) motorcycle related injuries. What to look for, most likely areas of injury and best way to maintain the person until proper help arrives. Things like stabilize the head, not remove the helmet unless.... but be able to tell other people not to either and back it up with a good reason.
I wont be pulling anyones leg to stop the bone sticking out as I know I can't do that well enough but will try and keep the person as comfortable as possible while help is on the way.
Is this the level you will be in-parting your knowledge of, or is it a bit more advanced?

[insane1]

im in this should be worth it never know when you might just need to know how to do this stuff.

[klingon]

YES! Absolutely!

I would cancel anything else I had planned for the day just to be there!

If you're concerned that people might (mistakenly) treat this as a substitute for a first aid course, then you could:

a) Insist that everyone who attends holds a basic first aid cert (or one that has expired within some specified short period of time)
and/or
b) Run this day directly after an actual first aid course - for example two consecutive Saturdays.

Personally I did the basic first aid course run by St Johns years ago. I have always intended to do it again, but was put off by my experience the first time. Basically the person running it treated us like we were in kindergarten and either refused to answer or didn't know the answers to any questions that were even marginally outside the scope of the course.

I ended up very frustrated about the whole thing and wondered if there was anything out there that was aimed at responsible adults.

In this case, I would happily do the basic first aid course in the knowledge that I would soon be able to ask my questions/have a discussion with a group of people who were genuinely interested in the subject!

PLEASE go ahead with this plan!