Update on running a kids grade.

[all4A50s]

I have heard back from Wayne from Kartsport Wellington and they have agreed to let the kids out during meets with the buckets.

I have asked for the next meet the kids go out at lunch time (as I am unsure about the numbers) and be there at 11 am to have their bikes scrutineered.

This is what I have proposed for the kids grade;
This grade is for 7-12 year olds.

The first lap would have them follow an adult around on their bikes. Followed by 3-5 laps with a flag start on their own.

They are not allowed to pass on corners and can only pass on the straights a with a wide gap/on the other side of the track.

The gear the kids wear must at least be the following; helmet, gloves, body protector, gumboots or riding boots and good fitting clothing.

Their bikes will need to be scrutineered.

At the end of year they would get a certificate of completion, with placings awarded for the amount of times they have been out, not where they finish at the end of each session. As this is a learning
experience.

I do have one question for you all to consider. Would we want a new rider out at the same time, regardless of age?

[Buckets4Me]

I do have one question for you all to consider. Would we want a new rider out at the same time, regardless of age?

in B grade with HiVis vest on
and maby only in practice or prelim till they prove they are semi capabill
and with a big warning that anyone hit's them and knocks them off it's home time

[Trudes]

And if only 2 kids turn up? Why could this have not just stayed a Slipway thing where there is less pressure on EVERYBODY!? How much will it cost each child to ride? Will you need flag marshals for them?
Seriously, if you want to organise a kids grade, keep it at the Slipway. If you want to teach your kids to ride, get them riding about in a paddock or take them to motorcross or something where it doesn't matter so much if they fall off. Honestly, I don't know your kids so well, but I do know generally what little girls are like, there's a very very good chance if they crash and hurt themselves it will damage their confidence and they may never want to do it again, or they will get really embarassed at falling off and crying in front of a big crowd, and never want to do it again. Let them build some confidence where it's not going to matter so much first.

[Henk]

I do have one question for you all to consider. Would we want a new rider out at the same time, regardless of age?

From experience running trail rides I'd suggest this is a bad idea. We had dedicated kids tracks and when faster MX kids went out and started turning hot laps or an adult went out and did the same most of the kids the track was targeted at would stop riding. Not because anything dangerous was going on but simply because they felt intimidated. I'd also re-think the gumboots if you feel you can. I know off road is different with tree stumps and the like but gummies offer all the crash protection of a pair of jandals.

[Yow Ling]

The gear the kids wear must at least be the following; helmet, gloves, body protector, gumboots or riding boots and good fitting clothing.

Is this really a high enough standard?. And who is in the gun when there is a serious accident, this is not the same as having an accident at home.

[Kendog]

I have heard back from Wayne from Kartsport Wellington and they have agreed to let the kids out during meets with the buckets.

I have asked for the next meet the kids go out at lunch time (as I am unsure about the numbers) and be there at 11 am to have their bikes scrutineered.

Why are you so desperate to get your kids riding at Kaitoke?

I have only been in buckets for a couple of years, during this time we have always had a kids/learner grade at Slipway. Slipway seems to be a far better place for kids to learn to ride/race. It's flat, easy to see end to end, easy to pass, corners are normally not to technical.
Kaitkoe is a pretty difficult track to ride, we need to be very careful with bikes damaging the track and it's a long way to the other end of the track if someone falls off.

So my question is, what is wrong with Slipway as a venue for what you have described?

[Number One]

I think this is a bad idea frankly. ESPECIALLY AT KAITOKE!

Secondly the minute you have a flag start the kids are racing - dodgy as far as I am concerned considering there is an age limit for Bucket racing.

As for saying they can't pass on corners and only on straights when they have lots of room either side - PASS ME A TUI - the adults can't even manage that at Kaitoke and you are expecting hotted up inexperienced little kids to manage it.

What will MNZ have to say - aren't bucket Kaitoke meets under them now?

Yeah bad bad bad move I reckon oh and also as I plan to be racing buckets again next year may I ask who will be giving up 'their PAID for track time' to accomodate a kids grade - for what at the moment sounds like a sum total of YOUR KIDS? ESPECIALLY when there are so many other avenues available to get them out on bikes and learning outside of having them riding at Bucket events.

[all4A50s]

I think this is a bad idea frankly. ESPECIALLY AT KAITOKE!

Secondly the minute you have a flag start the kids are racing - dodgy as far as I am concerned considering there is an age limit for Bucket racing.

As for saying they can't pass on corners and only on straights when they have lots of room either side - PASS ME A TUI - the adults can't even manage that at Kaitoke and you are expecting hotted up inexperienced little kids to manage it.

What will MNZ have to say - aren't bucket Kaitoke meets under them now?

Yeah bad bad bad move I reckon oh and also as I plan to be racing buckets again next year may I ask who will be giving up 'their PAID for track time' to accomodate a kids grade - for what at the moment sounds like a sum total of YOUR KIDS? ESPECIALLY when there are so many other avenues available to get them out on bikes and learning outside of having them riding at Bucket events.

I have asked for a price for the kids to enter from the kartsport people so they will be paying for their time.
At first it'll only be during the lunch break as no one is using the track then so it won't take away from anyone else time. If there is enough kids I'll look into having multiple session for them.

The passing only on straights is a way to ensure the kids can concentarte on getting around the corners and all are aware of when passing can happen. It's worked up at the Slipway all last year without incident.

I like the idea of doing a flagged start as a nice way for the kids to go off. We'll see one the day how many kids there are.

I'm still waiting to hear back from MNZ about such things happening. From what I can gather after informally talking to various people who have run events/involved with MNZ as long it is seen only as learning or educational experience they don't seem to have a problem with it.

For me this is a way to get more people into this from a young age into this sport (not forgetting their parents might have a go too). I know my daughters are keen to have a turn and have some interest from other through work. I wouldn't dream of taking away from other people's time and please tell me where there is other places they can ride motorbikes on a track/road in an organised event as i haven't found any.

[all4A50s]

Why are you so desperate to get your kids riding at Kaitoke?

So my question is, what is wrong with Slipway as a venue for what you have described?

Unless there has been a change to the calendar I could only find four dates at the Slipway.

[Skunk]

MNZ are NOT involved in Kaitoke except for special events. DO NOT involve them.

[Trudes]

That's the thing though, At The Moment you're talking about lunch times when it won't effect our already limited track time at Kaitoke, and then what? You do start cutting into it? I'm fairly sure last time you ran this past the people who would it would effect, the OTHER bucketers, the general consencous was to leave it alone, do it at the slipway or find another venue, like we did when we sorted out Kaitoke.
Please listen George, I suspect you may end up pissing off and alienating many people if you push this too hard.
Become a Kart club member, buy a key and let your kids ride there on YOUR time if you're so desperate to get them to ride there, or do what everyone else has to do, wait til they are old enough.
The other option is to talk to Bayden, find out what the deal is with the Slipway owners and see if you can organise having a few extra days there to run this.
There may be a very good reason why there aren't any clubs or places that run a similar thing for under 12s...... had a think about why?
Think about doing motorcross, they'd learn more there anyway (you keep saying it's about learning, they would learn more about riding, bikes and racing at motocross than they would riding about on a tarsealed track), then when they're old enough they'd have the mean skills and come and kick all us old folks butts.http://www.hondakidsclub.co.nz/

[Number One]

I like the idea, for me this is....blah blah blah

As per usual George you seem to miss addressing many of the points made by others and seemingly you have no answer for them either....I've highlighted some of them below so you can pick up on and consider them more easily....

And if only 2 kids turn up?.... Why could this have not just stayed a Slipway thing where there is less pressure on EVERYBODY!?....Will you need flag marshals for them?

re-think the gumboots ..... gummies offer all the crash protection of a pair of jandals.

who is in the gun when there is a serious accident, this is not the same as having an accident at home.

(THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR I THINK IS CRITICAL TO consider...WE ARE TALKING ABOUT KIDS here after all and keeping in mind the below too! IT is a very long way to walk injured pushing a bike from across that track at Kaitoke and if no one sees you go down (like what would probably happen during a 'lunch break') you can be out there by yourself head spinning for quite a while with no assistance...I know this from experience)

Kaitoke is a pretty difficult track to ride, we need to be very careful with bikes damaging the track and it's a long way to the other end of the track if someone falls off.

BTW why do kids need to take part in 'organised track/road RACING events' to learn how to ride and ride better anyway - there is shit loads of tarmack around the place available for this purpose after all.

[NSR143]

I think it is essential to get kids on our kart tracks, anyone dealt with should already ride, they wear full leathers and all the proper gear. Its very daft a young person can ride a 85cc MX bike and not a bucket for starters. And their dads would spend less time cleaning mud off .... that i am sure some would appreciate. NZ is lagging behind the world in respect of kids on tarmac. This needs to be taken up properly at an MNZ discussion group at AGM time... like it or not it will make the biggest difference if we have MNZ approval and appropriate rules for the class.

[quallman1234]

George, your intentions are good.
Kaitoke isn't the place to be doing it. Alot of effort has gone into getting us there, and it could easily be undone.
Keep it for slipway, or buy a key for your own kids.

[Kendog]

I think it is essential to get kids on our kart tracks, anyone dealt with should already ride,

Problem is, that is not what is being suggested here. The topic of 'kids' at Kaitoke was raised as somewhere for them to learn how to ride.

they wear full leathers and all the proper gear.

Also not suggested here.

Its very daft a young person can ride a 85cc MX bike and not a bucket for starters. And their dads would spend less time cleaning mud off .... that i am sure some would appreciate. NZ is lagging behind the world in respect of kids on tarmac. This needs to be taken up properly at an MNZ discussion group at AGM time... like it or not it will make the biggest difference if we have MNZ approval and appropriate rules for the class.

You may be right, but there must have been some rationale for the age decision made. No harm in asking MNZ the question in the appropriate forum.

Kaitkoe Kart club have only just allowed buckets back on their track. I would hate to see that put at risk when there is already a perfectly good alternative location for the kids to try 'racing'.

I am 100% against Kaitkoe being used in any form of 'learn to ride a bike' capacity. Kaitoke is a race track for racing. We are damn lucky to have the privilege of racing our buckets there, lets not f it up.