15% GST

[Mikkel]

It used to be "Mind the gap" now it seems this is turning into "Don't mind the gap"...

or worked harder. Either way - its not hard to get out of the lower wage bracket. FFS my daughters B/F is on 50k in his 20's - has no formal education - just hard work.

Let me think, you daughters boyfriend isn't a complete waster - otherwise you'd have scared him away a long time ago. As such he'll have an advantage over a lot of people...


NZ has got a fairly large disparity between rich and poor. If anything the government should be aiming at least not to widen this gap. Putting some taxes into place to reduce property speculation would be a good start - the country would be fairing better if not quite so much investment capital was put into properties where the is no real value production taking place.

[LBD]

The cunts won't even give me a student allowance.

Sooz you can get all skilled up then move to Aussie and earn a decient wage?

Rich people spend more than poor people. Rant over.

Correction...Rich peoples wives spend more than poor peoples wives

See thats why people like you should not be allowed to vote..

I have heard it said that less that 1/2 the population have the nouse to manage a household budget...begs the question..Should the majority have the vote?

Shit.Are they looking at putting GST up?Fuck, they kept that quiet - I hadn't heard a dicky bird about that.

And I heard about it 1/2 the world away the minute it happened...???? Maybe I just get home sick and follow all the news huh?

[p.dath]

isn't national a right leaning party??? Decrease taxes, decrease benefits, decrease gov't control. Basic right wing principals??? Or was i high during my 3 years of political science classes

National is a centre right party, and Lanour is a centre left party - but they are both fundamentally centre parties.

and if you like spending all your income on bikes and racing, you basically being dp'd

This is what they are trying to target, consumption without saving. For the country to prosper we need more local investment, and we need more domestic investment for that to occur.

[nallac]

I don't know why everyone's worried.

As far as I can tell, I'm going to be better off. Isn't that what really matters?

me too.......

[Coldrider]

Increase on GST is a very cunning move due to fiscal drag.
Wages and salaries are not rising so the tax take proprtionally is not increasing, especially with many unemployed.
However with the cost of goods and services always rising (most all) the consumption tax take will always increase.

[Flip]

It used to be "Mind the gap" now it seems this is turning into "Don't mind the gap"...



Let me think, you daughters boyfriend isn't a complete waster - otherwise you'd have scared him away a long time ago. As such he'll have an advantage over a lot of people...


NZ has got a fairly large disparity between rich and poor. If anything the government should be aiming at least not to widen this gap. Putting some taxes into place to reduce property speculation would be a good start - the country would be fairing better if not quite so much investment capital was put into properties where the is no real value production taking place.

The thing is that there are too few new houses being built at the moment, simple supply and demand is holding house prices up. Also ma and pa investors have had a bad run recently with finance companies going bust and banks ripping off customers. As far as rentals go any significant changes in the rental property tax structure will reduce the availability of rental properties and result in the increased costs being passed onto the Tennant's. This beginning to happen rignt now, rents are going up as the supply of new investers into the rental property market drys.

Me I actually like GST going up as it pick up some tax from the capital rich who on paper have very low incomes and pay little income tax. As long as all the tax brackets drop by 2.5% I think it sounds very reasonable. (I don't believe I said that of a National Govt)

[Pixie]

It still happens. My wife studies full time , has a job and is also the main caregiver to our kids. Mind you she is not part off the handout generation.

I thought it was more an ethnic group

[rainman]

See thats why people like you should not be allowed to vote.

He very clearly said that there would be cuts across the board - so you will be getting a tax cut and should be nett better off.

Ah, wouldn't democracy be easier if we could just exclude people we disagreed with? I'd exclude all the gullible bastards that voted National last time.... (not really, but you get my point).

Tank, he also said he would not be raising GST, and he's a politician, so I'll wait for the details in the budget before getting all excited. To my mind though there is a simple question to answer:

- If the whole exercise is "revenue neutral" it's a redistribution rather than an increase or reduction (by definition). Taking less income tax and more GST and resulting in everyone being "better off" (whatever that lovely vague term means) is a fairly pointless exercise - why bother? Sure there are some minor incentive effects but they head in the direction of reducing consumption so are a mixed blessing for retailers servicing the local market. So there will be winners and losers.
- I honestly can't believe National will use a tax redistribution exercise to make the poor more better off and the rich less better off, so I'll exclude that from consideration. They never have before, and have no incentive to do so. (Perhaps the poor will get a small sop and the price of improvements for the rich will be extracted from the middle, though).
- If it is in fact an overall reduction in tax take (I would be most surprised) then here must be a corresponding reduction in government services - even assuming an absolutely efficient government, which ain't the case. Or an increase in debt. I'd like to know what I'm no longer buying before being happy about not paying for it - mainly because I am convinced that there are services that government can provide for cheaper than private enterprise. You may not share this view, of course - but whatever. Also think we need a more grown up discussion of debt, and pushing our excesses onto our kids to deal with for the sake of a tax cut now is not very moral.

So, most likely outcome? The relaively wealthy end up relatively wealthier, the rest of us get basically nothing (or shafted, again). Supplementary prediction - the explanation showing the rest of us will be "better off" will involve discussions of how things will improve over time, and if only we put National in for a second term the future will be bright and full of growth. lower taxes, ponies and fluffy bunnies. (It won't).

Bet you a beer I'm right.

[Pixie]

The thing is that there are too few new houses being built at the moment, simple supply and demand is holding house prices up. Also ma and pa investors have had a bad run recently with finance companies going bust and banks ripping off customers. As far as rentals go any significant changes in the rental property tax structure will reduce the availability of rental properties and result in the increased costs being passed onto the Tennant's. This beginning to happen rignt now, rents are going up as the supply of new investers into the rental property market drys.



Me I actually like GST going up as it pick up some tax from the capital rich who on paper have very low incomes and pay little income tax. As long as all the tax brackets drop by 2.5% I think it sounds very reasonable. (I don't believe I said that of a National Govt)

I object to my taxes paying for bludger lifestyles.Both the unemployable and the 50% of property investors that pay no tax on their rental income.
And I don't suck on the taxpayer teat via Kiwisaver either

[pc220]

I thought it was more an ethnic group

Na she also of that ethnic group.

[Flip]

I object to my taxes paying for bludger lifestyles.Both the unemployable and the 50% of property investors that pay no tax on their rental income.
And I don't suck on the taxpayer teat via Kiwisaver either

Thing is the country needs a good stock of rental housing. Without LAQC status rentals would be about 11% of the property valve, they are not they are only 7%. Pull say 20% of the rentals and put them on the market, the housing market would almost absorb 5% at the moment and everybody's rent goes up 20% and there would shortly be a hell of a lot of people with no place to live. I don't think the goverment is going to build 20 thosand new state houses in the next couple of years.

[p.dath]

I object to my taxes paying for bludger lifestyles.Both the unemployable and the 50% of property investors that pay no tax on their rental income.
And I don't suck on the taxpayer teat via Kiwisaver either

Rental income is taxable. However the profit from buying a rental and then selling it 10 years later for a higher price is not. And that is the issue, the income from the capital gain on the property has 0% tax. And so people say why should people doing this pay no tax.

The other big issue is it attracts a lot of people into the market because of this 0% taxation. Suddenly a lot of investment is done in housing and not done in the share market, private companies, mum and dad businesses, and the like.

Residential housing going up in value does nothing for the country. Enterprises and mum and dad business improve the economy of NZ. They employ people. They pay tax. They may be able to export products, which really improves the NZ economy.

A lot of the recession we have now is purely related to the fact that NZ has a distorted balance sheet. Far too much investment in domestic property (which generates no income for NZ), and not enough in business.

[paturoa]

Here is a big thanks to the top 10% of wage and salary earners who've been paying 42% of the income tax. (source: http://blog.labour.org.nz/index.php/tag/tax-myths/)

Clearly thats not fair.

THANK YOU

[freedom-wedge]

Rental income is taxable. However the profit from buying a rental and then selling it 10 years later for a higher price is not. And that is the issue, the income from the capital gain on the property has 0% tax. And so people say why should people doing this pay no tax.

The other big issue is it attracts a lot of people into the market because of this 0% taxation. Suddenly a lot of investment is done in housing and not done in the share market, private companies, mum and dad businesses, and the like.

Residential housing going up in value does nothing for the country. Enterprises and mum and dad business improve the economy of NZ. They employ people. They pay tax. They may be able to export products, which really improves the NZ economy.

A lot of the recession we have now is purely related to the fact that NZ has a distorted balance sheet. Far too much investment in domestic property (which generates no income for NZ), and not enough in business.

agrees in principle, however there is somthing to be said for home ownership, we are infact encouraged to do so, individuals who work hard to gather lets say two rental properties cannot be likened to a commercial property investors, there has to be allowances made, not examples, blanket tax smothers

pedro

[SPman]

again - indications from what they have released is that everyone should be nett better off - sigh - do you people ever read the detail or do you simply take poor media commentary or opposition press releases.

What planet are you on? You believe the moon is made of green cheese as well, do you? And yes, I've read the detail!