Is it possible?

[mashman]

FLAME ON

do you think it's possible to cater for everyone in the country? is it possible to turn this country into, well, something "better" (you ONLY have 4 million people here, less than the population of Scotland)... If not, then why is everyone whining? you're just blowing hot air... i'm guilty of it too, but hey, i'm not from this country...

Would you think that a third political party would help, the KIWI party? one that's full of the true idealists and realists, one with new ideas on policy, one that consults the other parties in regards to the proposed policies, one who's goal is to try to rebuild the country, but in accordance with the wishes of the people?

Well NZ, would you vote for it? Would you be prepared to be part of that government?

Just curious...

[Mully]

do you think it's possible to cater for everyone in the country? is it possible to turn this country into, well, something "better" (you ONLY have 4 million people here, less than the population of Scotland)..

Nope. As you correctly pointed out - some people don't want to work. The best anyone can do is improve their own lot (and then lock it up so no bastard can pinch it)

.

If not, then why is everyone whining? you're just blowing hot air... i'm guilty of it too, but hey, i'm not from this country...

That's what people do - the grass is always greener and all that. Plus, you have to have someone to blame.

Would you think that a third political party would help, the KIWI party? one that's full of the true idealists and realists, one with new ideas on policy, one that consults the other parties in regards to the proposed policies, one who's goal is to try to rebuild the country, but in accordance with the wishes of the people?

Personally, I think it would help. I'm not of the opinion that partisan politics achieves anything (I've mentioned my theory on Govts focussing on 3-year terms, not the long-term view)

As for whether the idealists would stick around after being frustrated for the first term, that's another issue.

EDIT: This'll be an interesting thread, actually. I'm curious about what people think of this.

[mashman]

Nope. As you correctly pointed out - some people don't want to work. The best anyone can do is improve their own lot (and then lock it up so no bastard can pinch it)

Why is that the case then? Why should 1 feed the other?

That's what people do - the grass is always greener and all that. Plus, you have to have someone to blame.

We're blaming the government, the government are blaming the global economy, the global economy exists because of the people and we elect representatives to take the other stresses of life away from us in order to make our lot better... yet we blame our government for not doing enough... or not doing the job right... who then in turn blame the economy... doesn't really seem to change does it. Ha, the only time the grass is greener is when you get something for nothing... i.e. change banks because they have a higher interest rate, change mortgage because the other bank has a lower interest rate... change party allegiancies because, well we don't like the 1 we currently have and have no other choice.

Personally, I think it would help. I'm not of the opinion that partisan politics achieves anything (I've mentioned my theory on Govts focussing on 3-year terms, not the long-term view)

So if you have a third party that actually does a good job... you would likely be voted in again at the next election? keep on doing a good job and...

As for whether the idealists would stick around after being frustrated for the first term, that's another issue.

If your ideals are noticably helping the country, wouldn't you stick around?

EDIT: This'll be an interesting thread, actually. I'm curious about what people think of this.

I'm hoping it stirs a little debate, maybe even gives birth to something... different! and i do like to ask questions...

[Mully]

Why is that the case then? Why should 1 feed the other?

I think society (if we want to consider ourselves "civilised") has an obligation to look after those unable to work - the (actually) sick and the elderly, etc. Unfortunately, some people decide they can't be arsed working - and use a safety net as a career option.

So if you have a third party that actually does a good job... you would likely be voted in again at the next election? keep on doing a good job and...

If your ideals are noticably helping the country, wouldn't you stick around?

The trouble is, as KB proves, you'll never get total agreement on anything (fuck, look at the GST thing). The "radicals" (for want of a better term) tend to frustrate genuinely "good" people who want to make a difference - one of the annoying things about MMP is the fact that the tail can wag the dog.

Then you have to define "helping" the country - whose definition of that do we use? And is is possible to "help" the country in all possible areas

I've said it before and I'll say it again - democracy doesn't work.

[mashman]

I think society (if we want to consider ourselves "civilised") has an obligation to look after those unable to work - the (actually) sick and the elderly, etc. Unfortunately, some people decide they can't be arsed working - and use a safety net as a career option.

So what can a "civilised" society do, or third political party do to remove that perception from the people? Especially when the jobs aren't there to be had!

The trouble is, as KB proves, you'll never get total agreement on anything (fuck, look at the GST thing). The "radicals" (for want of a better term) tend to frustrate genuinely "good" people who want to make a difference - one of the annoying things about MMP is the fact that the tail can wag the dog.

True. People won't agree on everything, but since when did the government care about what people agree on? I'm not advocating that one size fits all, but there has to be a better fit than we already have... it just needs to be found.

Then you have to define "helping" the country - whose definition of that do we use? And is is possible to "help" the country in all possible areas

I would say that a country is its people. Not the sum of its GDP. I think it's the social reponsibility of the government of the day to help in every area, if that's what they've been elected to do. Maybe KB will supply the curve ball...

I've said it before and I'll say it again - democracy doesn't work.

I'm half and half with that.