Greenpeace activist to be tried for piracy in Japan?

[Pascal]

There is a difference in supporting the person and not supporting the action. If you have read my post you will have discovered this.

I saw the distinction you made, I just think it is bullshit. If a New Zealander commits a crime in a foreign country I do not see why they (the person) should be supported. Reverse the situation. A foreign national comes to New Zealand and commits a crime here. Should their governmental agencies come over and provide support to this person?

No. They comitted a crime here. They fall under New Zealand jurisdiction. They will be punished according to our laws. The laws they chose to break.

[Skyryder]

I don't see you chipping in to help this poor fellow countryman?
Poor wee countryman bloke thingy

This bloke needs to be freed too. Why does our country not support this fellow countryman?

Let's bring our boys home?

Your nationalism differs from true patriotism like a fanatic differs from a religious person.

The analogy that ‘true’ patriotism, just how that differs from patriotism I don’t know, and nationalism is as different as a fanatic and a religious person is again flawed as a fanatic is not necessarily a religious person but can be fanatical about all kind of things. However I do see your intent.

Nationalism as such tends to be associated with political ideals. Patriotism is commonly associated with the military and the support thereof. I think most people would agree with that concept when it comes to defining the difference between the two. My views on both a bit more clearly defined.
Nationalism as mentioned is a political view, and the policies of the party expressing a nationalist view usually propounds an extremist ideology which may be either to the left or the right of the main political spectrum.

Patriotism is a word I do not like in that those that proclaim themselves as such usually question the loyalty of those who have a different point of view. However having said that I use the word as all encompassing for the overall support of those who engage in defending our traditions, heritage and way of life be it on foreign soil or our own.


Skyryder

[Skyryder]

No. They comitted a crime here. They fall under New Zealand jurisdiction. They will be punished according to our laws. The laws they chose to break.

So where have I disagreed with the above??


Skyrder

[MisterD]

e, and the inaction of our government,

Foreign Affairs have been in contact with the Japs and have offered the standard consular services just as any NZ passport holder is entitled to if they get into strife abroad...if the Japs decide to string him up from a handy yardarm then I'd expect some actual lobbying at a government level.

[Marmoot]

The analogy that ...
Skyryder

Objection, Your Honour: Semantics.

My apologies, English is not my 1st language, so my vocabulary might be skewed.

Let me rephrase: "Your X differs from Y just like a fanatic differs from a religious person".

[Mikkel]

Sounds like baseless conjecture to me.

Well, seeing as you are familiar with the term conjecture - how about applying some of the same criticality to your own arguments?

[rainman]

...do you have the right to vote in New Zealand? Moreover, ... you have the ability to agitate at election time to sway people to vote for the parties that support your cause.

Good lord, you think this is an issue that can meaningfully be progressed by a local leaflet drop? Perhaps I should run for the Save The Whales Party? Just amazing. Well, good luck with that world view, buddy.

So yes in summary
Japanese govt, Japanese whalers, Aus Govt, Nz Govt and SS are bunch of wankers who should step back, think about the situation, sort it out and pull EVERYONE the fuck out of the Antarctic.

Works for me. Unfortunately, despite a great deal of international political effort, it doesn't seem to work for the Japanese and the Norwegians.

Well, seeing as you are familiar with the term conjecture - how about applying some of the same criticality to your own arguments?

Sure. Which ones do you think are conjecture?

[Pascal]

Good lord, you think this is an issue that can meaningfully be progressed by a local leaflet drop? Perhaps I should run for the Save The Whales Party? Just amazing. Well, good luck with that world view, buddy.

Follow the chain.

Do you want this issue resolved? Your first step is to ensure the government voted in by the people will act on this. This requires leaflet drops, public awareness and getting them on your side. Once you have the government willing to act on this, they can begin putting diplomatic pressure on making changes. Those are the proper channels.

If, however, you do as Greenpeace is doing and taking the law into your own hands with these dangerous publicity stunts you are not getting the public on side. You're turning them off your cause.

[Mully]

C'mon people.

Can't we all just sit down with some Whale 'n Chips and get along??

[Drunken Monkey]

I saw the distinction you made, I just think it is bullshit. If a New Zealander commits a crime in a foreign country I do not see why they (the person) should be supported. Reverse the situation. A foreign national comes to New Zealand and commits a crime here. Should their governmental agencies come over and provide support to this person?

No. They comitted a crime here. They fall under New Zealand jurisdiction. They will be punished according to our laws. The laws they chose to break.

As much as I often disagree with Skyryder's idealogical rants, he has a point and your example is incorrect. When foreign nationals get arrested and imprisoned in other countries, representatives of the accused persons' nation will visit them in court/prison and provide assistance in the form of messages to friends and family, instructions of how to deal with/survive in the foreign prison and any other aid deemed legal by the host nation's government. It is very common even for "dirty" drug runners to get this kind of assistance, see examples such as Sandra Gregory (UK citizen arrested and imprisoned in Thailand), Scott Campbell/Lucy Baker (UK citizens arrested and imprisoned in Mexico), and closer to home, Chapelle Corby (I'm sure the details of her case need no further description as we're all quite familiar with it). Certainly in neither the Sandra Gregory case or the Campbell/Baker case did the UK government condone the action of the arrested, however they still had a local representative of the UK government assist these people.
So in short, there already exists a protocol to support your fellow nationals, without necessarily condoning.

[JimO]

How has Pete damaged the property of the Japanese?

well he probably scratched the paint on the front of the boat thet he parked in front of

[onearmedbandit]

I've spent a bit of time in Japan, not a great deal but enough to have eaten many many different types of seafood, but never once found whale on the menu. And no one I asked actually liked it, most had tried it but not all. Now the Japanese are very proud people, and don't like to back down. So as long as the groups like the SS keep pressure on them then they more than likely won't back down. Ignore it all, and you'll probably find that the number of whales killed will drop dramatically. I've heard there are surplus stockpiles of whale meat rotting in storage in Japan, how long could the market last?

[imdying]

How dare you suggest Pete acknowledges that not all cultures operate in the same manner as his own, and then actually use that knowledge as leverage for accomplishing his goals. He is obviously much better off using the same old crap that has taken groups like SS nowhere for so long.

[marty]

No. They comitted a crime here. They fall under New Zealand jurisdiction. They will be punished according to our laws. The laws they chose to break.

Exactly what crime has Bethune commited?

[Drunken Monkey]

Boarding a vessel flying a foreign flag without express permission for starters...