Legal advice needed!

[mynameis]

Other than getting a lein on a home what other security could you offer that couldn't be sold? I was in car sales for 11yrs, the car is always the security, and when dealing with first tier lenders you typically don't get problems, as the criteria is higher. However, the lower end finance companies are not beyond employing gang members etc to prompt slow payments, or track down a missing car. And despite the car being sold, you can guarantee the finance company is either seeking redress from the person on the finance form or the dealer (recourse or non-recourse finance. One means the it isn't the dealers responsibility, the other means the dealer owes the money). I know of one dealership (no longer operating afaik) who had ignition killers in their vehicles that were financed to extremely high risk payers, along with GPS. If any payment was missed the cars ignition was remotely disabled and the repo agent sent to collect it. He found cars (that were sold in ChCh) all over NZ.

I may have put this in the wrong way. What I meant was why should finance companies be using the car as security when they are financing the car itself i.e. the item isn't paid and free itself.

If they were to use some other personal property of the person which is paid off and free then the problem wouldn't exist right? You get what I am saying? I.e. the financee owns a boat worth 11k which is free then load the security against that as opposed to the car which he's getting a loan for.

Using the car just creates loop holes and shafts innocent people just like in this case.

There are still finance companies?

Just out of curiousity (cos I'm only a bush lawyer, so I need more information) - if the OP had been asked specifically by the buyer whether there was a security on the vehicle and said no, would be be liable for punishment for misrepresentation?

NO because CGA doesn't cover private sale of second hand goods.

It just shows the morals of the guy (unless it happens to him of course). Yet another warning to anyone who ever deals with DB.

Bring him to the forum. Let us be the judge.

Are you Judge Judy or Judge Christina ?

[Coldrider]

Contractual Remedies Act and Sale of Goods Act (it still exists but largely superseeded by FTA and CGA) still apply.

These two points taken from dept consumer affairs.
For private sales
Contractual Remedies Act
Under this Act you may have rights against a private seller if you can prove that:
• you were persuaded to buy the vehicle by what the seller said, and
• the seller’s statements are untrue, and
• the seller’s false statements have caused you loss.

Was the current owner misled, or did the sellar make reasonably steps to ensure the vehicle was actually debt free?


Sale of Goods Act
The Sale of Goods Act gives you the right to cancel a contract or claim compensation where, unknown to you, the seller did not have the right to sell the goods, or the goods were being used as security. You can claim your money back from the seller because they sold you a vehicle when they did not have the right to.
eg, Tusi buys a car from a friend. She’s had the car for two weeks when she gets a call from a finance company saying that the car was on hire purchase, and they want it back. Tusi can take a claim to the Disputes Tribunal to recover her money from her friend.

The prob with this one is has the innocent seller got he right to resell the vehicle.

Also there are a few 'outs' for the registerd security.
If the vehicle was worth less than $2000 at the time of the HP, if a vehicle has passed through a Reg Motor Vehicle Dealer, or if any particulars are incorrect on the Register eg Vin or Rego on the register is incorrect.

Bush Judge

[onearmedbandit]

I may have put this in the wrong way. What I meant was why should finance companies be using the car as security when they are financing the car itself i.e. the item isn't paid and free itself.

If they were to use some other personal property of the person which is paid off and free then the problem wouldn't exist right? You get what I am saying? I.e. the financee owns a boat worth 11k which is free then load the security against that as opposed to the car which he's getting a loan for.

Using your example, this is what could possibly happen. Joe Bloggs has got a boat that he thinks is worth 11k. Does the finance company just take his word for it? No, they (or the dealer) would have to visit where he keeps the boat and value it, no doubt at less than what Joe thinks it's worth. However the car is an agreed $11k (by the dealer, the buyer, and the finance company) so why not use that, because hey if the guy is going to sell his car to some unsuspecting buyer then what's to stop him selling the boat in the same circumstance.

At the end of the day, most buyers are cautious and will check if money is owing, it's what you should always do. You can't blame the system if people don't use it.

[Coldrider]

What is on HP is what is usually used as security, the risk is reflected in the higher interest rate, (the risk component, higher risk-higher rate).

Also cautionary note on the security register to all.
If you make a check, always check again on the day you actually intend to complete the purchase.

[kwaka_crasher]

Tell this clown to text the registration plate to FIND (3463) for $1 to get a code to use on the PPSR to see who has registered the security. He can then contact them an get them to remove their security interest if nothing is owing. Finance companies are very slack about doing this.

[onearmedbandit]

He can then contact them an get them to remove their security interest if nothing is owing. Finance companies are very slack about doing this.

Very true. The number of times I went to trade a car and found there was a hook on it, only to find out it had been paid off in full 2 yrs ago.

Ha, reminds me of the time I had the misfortune to trade a 1990's Mazda Capella pressure wave supercharger diesel. The odomoter read what I took to be 96400km, I checked the diesel tax cert first and saw that it was paid through to 97000km. No problems I thought. Come Monday I get one of the yardies to get the car ready so I can flick it on to another dealer, he comes back in laughing about how well it goes for nearly 1,000,000km! Fuck, the odo reads 964,000! km! This can't be right, so I got the cars history. Everything is fine up to about 80,000 when the next reading goes to 860,000km! It was just a clerical error but I'll never forget arguing with the then LTSA about how a vehicle could go from 80,000 to 860,000 in 6mths. The road tax bill they wanted was in the thousands. I traded the car for about $500. All got sorted in the end