Spelling these days...

**SPman** · 19th February 2010, 17:05

Originally Posted by EB

We refused to accept the teachers' declining standards and corrected our children whenever necessary, something they appreciated.

We still do it to our kids and they are hitting 30! A friend's kids have degrees coming out their ears, yet still have appalling spelling and grammar skills. It is all well and good saying "as long as they can be understood, it's ok" and, if they are speaking, they usually can be understood, but, when they write stuff down, subtle changes in spelling can make a big difference in meaning. The Sri Lankans and Chinese in our office have better English skills than most of the younger people I know!

**MSTRS:Me** · 19th February 2010, 17:12

Originally Posted by SPman

...subtle changes in spelling can make a big difference in meaning...

Can't they just?
"I brought my lunch today."
"Why didn't you buy it like we did?"
"But I did..."

**mister.koz** · 19th February 2010, 17:18

For the most part my spelling is never an issue because I know how to tell MS Word (or openOffice.org) that I would like my spelling corrected in EN-NZ.

In general though; for the average person writing an email to their mum stating that "yes, i do have clean underwear" its probably not that important. Of course apathy is probably how spelling and grammar got so bad in the first place.

What about the ones who go out of their way to spell things incorrectly?

"heye howes yor dey gohing" and such - drives me banana's.

**MSTRS:Me** · 19th February 2010, 17:22

There's that bloody aberrant apostrophe, again

**Mom** · 19th February 2010, 17:27

Originally Posted by Virago

Standards have slipped - but abuse of apostrophes is never acceptable.

You big bully boy!

Originally Posted by Hitcher

Have you not heard of the menopause? Sheesh.

It is "Men At Pause" thank you very much. The poor bastards are too friggen scared to move if truth be told.

Hey Edbear. Try agreements instead of aggreements

**smoky** · 19th February 2010, 17:33

Originally Posted by MikeL

This research finding pops up every so often and at first sight it does appear to have profound implications ...Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla bla blalbla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal blabla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla..normally-spelt passage?
The conclusion that the human mind reads tbla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla bbla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal blabla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal blabla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla of the word to start with.
It would bla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal blabla bla bla bla bla bla bal bla bla bla bal abla bla blallla bla bal bla them.

FFS?

every one knows that, it was posted as light hearted humour

**Pixie** · 19th February 2010, 17:36

Originally Posted by Edbear

In recent threads there has been much posted about spelling and grammar. One poster said his teacher wasn't concerned whether he could read or write!

Language standards have continued to decline and we have now reached the stage where adults in positions of responsibility and in the public arena can't spell.

It's fine for the young one's who don't understand the implications to say, "Who cares?", however the ramifications for society are profound and long lasting. Communcation is the life-blood of society and effective communication is especially important in business. A business not able to communicate properly is going to suffer and fail and this is even more critical in the international arena where people expect to be presented with correct language, especially where our language is not their primary language.

Having a son-in-law who speaks four languages fluently and gets by in a couple more and who immigrated here from Germany, has impressed upon me the need to be accurate. His international business connections has lead to me dealing with overseas companies and has opened business opportunities for me here. We are now forming business aggreements with international and overseas companies and have begun importing product from Germany with more to come.

Were I not able to communicate accurately and effectively I would never be taken seriously and would never have the opportunities offered to me thus far. The company owners and managers I meet with need to be impressed, not only with dress and knowledge, but as importantly with clear, accurate and easily understood communication - language standards of the highest order.

As an employer, my son-in-law expects clear and accurate communication from his employees as mistakes and lack of clarity cost him time and money. He goes to great lengths to communicate efectively with staff so that they know what they need to do and he expects they will communicate clearly and effectively with customers. Many of his clients are of the "upper class", by that I mean well-off business people who expect the highest standards of workmanship and communication. Jobs he contracts for are at the high end of the market including multi-story commercial businesses in the city. As such the employees have nice shirts provided and are expected to be as clean and well dressed as the type of work allows, including shaved. If he empoyed a worker with a beard the worker would need to be well groomed, not scruffy.

The employees are often the "face" of the company and as such the company is judged by the conduct and speech of the employee. The reputation of the company can be severely damaged by poorly spoken, slovenly employees and there is only a set number of times a boss can repair damage before losing what may be a key client, costing the company a lot of money as word spreads about, or even from, the disgruntled customer.

It is not vanity to endeavour to speak and write correctly, nor is it of no consequence to refuse to learn how. It makes good sense in both a personal and business application as relationships are built or destroyed by the standard of communication. Effective language skills open up opportunities denied to those who cannot speak, read or write properly.

Rant over...

Very true.
One must remember that in today's world we are dealing with international contacts who learn very good written English as a second language.
When you correspond with them in what looks like something a 5 year old from a remedial reading class (do they even still have those)wrote ,it fails to impress.

**Mom** · 19th February 2010, 17:45

The curriculum, Te Whariki? I may go and look that up, but close enough for now. While the education of our nations children is a fluid and constantly adjusted process, it is more and more about reaching standards which when viewed from the outside looking in, appear to be getting lower and lower every year, the standards that is. The amount of paper work required to be done to "prove" you are testing your students seems to be taking more and more time away from the actual "teaching".
I have been lucky. My kids for the most went through school with "experienced" teachers who knew how to complete paper work to appease, and still actually teach my kids. There were a few exceptions along the way, but I went and voiced my concerns. Seemingly, if you are interested and make the effort (apart from parent/teacher nights) things improve.

I would not be a teacher for "All the tea in China" as the saying goes. Too many parents like me that actually gave a shit to contend with. Too much form filling and statistic taking and paperwork to do. No wonder many get pissed off and slack off. We are teaching to the lowest common denominator afterall.

Sorry to any teachers on here, nothing personal. I have met many really fantastic teachers, but far to, far to many that were not.

**Edbear** · 19th February 2010, 17:49

Originally Posted by Mom

You big bully boy!

It is "Men At Pause" thank you very much. The poor bastards are too friggen scared to move if truth be told.

Hey Edbear. Try agreements instead of aggreements

Hmmm, maybe that was an agregious agreement...?

**Pixie** · 19th February 2010, 17:56

Originally Posted by yungatart

There are still many literate New Zealanders out there though, even among those who have left school very recently, so it can't be all the fault of the teachers/education system.
Some of them even post on here, occasionally.....

Not necessarily anything to do with the teachers.
My reading age at school was always several years beyond my chronological age.It had nothing to do with my teachers,who were all hippies and beatniks,it was because I enjoyed reading and could never get enough books.

**Edbear** · 19th February 2010, 17:59

Originally Posted by Pixie

Very true.
One must remember that in today's world we are dealing with international contacts who learn very good written English as a second language.
When you correspond with them in what looks like something a 5 year old from a remedial reading class (do they even still have those)wrote ,it fails to impress.

Agreed, we are living in a true global village now and much if not most business is international.

Originally Posted by Mom

The curriculum, Te Whariki? I may go and look that up, but close enough for now. While the education of our nations children is a fluid and constantly adjusted process, it is more and more about reaching standards which when viewed from the outside looking in, appear to be getting lower and lower every year, the standards that is. The amount of paper work required to be done to "prove" you are testing your students seems to be taking more and more time away from the actual "teaching".
I have been lucky. My kids for the most went through school with "experienced" teachers who knew how to complete paper work to appease, and still actually teach my kids. There were a few exceptions along the way, but I went and voiced my concerns. Seemingly, if you are interested and make the effort (apart from parent/teacher nights) things improve.

I would not be a teacher for "All the tea in China" as the saying goes. Too many parents like me that actually gave a shit to contend with. Too much form filling and statistic taking and paperwork to do. No wonder many get pissed off and slack off. We are teaching to the lowest common denominator afterall.

Sorry to any teachers on here, nothing personal. I have met many really fantastic teachers, but far to, far to many that were not.

My wife is qualified to teach up to year 8 and wouldn't want to due to the behaviour of the kids! Working in early childhood education she, (and I), are both amazed and appalled at the parenting. Some parent's attitudes boggle the mind! Not just talking about the lowest of the socio-economic strata here, these are well-to-do middle-class people, often!

**Pixie** · 19th February 2010, 18:00

Originally Posted by SPman

We still do it to our kids and they are hitting 30! A friend's kids have degrees coming out their ears, yet still have appalling spelling and grammar skills. It is all well and good saying "as long as they can be understood, it's ok" and, if they are speaking, they usually can be understood, but, when they write stuff down, subtle changes in spelling can make a big difference in meaning.

Yes,
"Helping my uncle jack off a horse" has quite a different meaning to: "Helping my Uncle Jack,off a horse.

Edit: Boom tish