More rorts from the Nats

[freedom-wedge]

Ive got to say on reading his posts, Im cheering for the mashman, am I the only one that understands what hes talking about ??

pedro

[Oscar]

I,m not saying democracy dosnt work, I think it just works a whole lot better for some. I,m not refering to the anti smacking bill in general, seen as i make generalisations according to you, I,m refering to any referendum, they are not binding in this country, almost a waste of time. I dont think national won the election, it was handed to them, and given the state of the previous gov it was quite understandable.
Now we have the situation where the robbers in the house, he got in there by telling you he had to read the meter amd we have to wait three years till the robbery in progress is over, why becuase the robbers before had had their day and any robber was better then those robbers.

You say " Which takes precedence, the referendum or the general election" a referendum must surley for it may be the closest thing to gauge the will of the people given the current political structure.

And what of Rodney Hide generally ?? you like him ?? dislike him, whistle blower gets blown sort of thing ?

Obsurdities and rorts are not to be forgotten, this gov are servin them up daily its like yeasterdays ones were clensed by todays even bigger gaff, low level political debate does nothing in these forums, and anyway you use it often to try and prove that you have an intelectual ability oscar which you do but you miss so much at times, that dosnt include my spelling and bad grammar unfortunately.

pedro

More randomness.

You meander through a couple of half baked statements and then say that this is not the forum to debate them. Come back when you've upped the dosage, decreased the dosage, or given yerself five uppercuts to clear you head.

[Oscar]

I'm not saying they're automatically bad... I was just citing a few examples... But I can make them look bad if you'd prefer...



At what cost? Loss of "skilled" jobs most likely... the introduction of 3rd parties contracted to ACC to provide X services, keeping costs low to start with when quoting for the work available... 3rd party staff will require training, so service will be affected (BAD for the people), private sector generally requires there to be a profit made (BAD for the people)...

The last change to ACC caused jobs in the insurance industry to increase, and since the work is similar to what they're already doing, little or no change to traing or infrastructure is required.

As for profit, why is that automatically bad? It's the lack of a profit or efficiency driver that makes govt. agencies like ACC so inefficient.

I'm not saying re-jigging the tax system isn't going to help... but if you're asking people to save... who's going to be spending money? and if there's no money being spent, then how many businesses will fold? The rich could live off of the interest they earn alone if they wanted... why do they need tax cuts or more money for that matter?

So how does saving convert into investment?

NZ needs local investment both to drive and secure the economy. The way we're structured at the moment, local investment goes into houses and banks use overseas money to invest in business.

Again though there are positive counter arguments for my negative ones... there always are when someone doesn't agree with what you say...

My point entirely. There's a bunch of people here making vague statements about how the system doesn't work, or how this party or that party is at fault - but there's not a whole lot of facts being served up.

And the fact that there is always someone with a contrary view indicates a healthy democracy.

[mashman]

The last change to ACC caused jobs in the insurance industry to increase, and since the work is similar to what they're already doing, little or no change to traing or infrastructure is required.

There are other areas, ACC stated as part of their 08/09 financial review that they would be looking into 3rd party providers as opposed to training staff at ACC (because it could take 6 months)... they then go on to say that these 3rd parties will be trained and monitored etc... so why not train the ACC staff then? So ACC COULD lose staff...

As far as i'm concerned that shows a lack of ambition to bring the system into the 21st century... it seems that it's easier to outsource, to pass the "problems/blame" on to someone else... what's the point of having ACC if it's outsourcing "core" business... may as well just go straight to the insurance company and be done with it.

As for profit, why is that automatically bad? It's the lack of a profit or efficiency driver that makes govt. agencies like ACC so inefficient.

True, it's not automatically bad... hopefully i didn't say it was... BUT... these are the things that stun me. Profit is a driver for government... why? what ever happened to doing your best?, ya know, doing ya job because there are others relying on you to do just that... in this case, a whole fucking country full of them... The way I see it, it's a lack of a want to do anything any better that screws efficiency, tweaking and tinkering is not the way to move forwards... the lack of ability to say, this isn't working, let's stop now and try it again, but we'll think about it this time... our lords and masters know that they don't have to do FUCK ALL, because that's just politics man... you just need to make promises, make noises and blame the last lot for the problems... If it was that bad, then the shadow cabinet have not done their jobs properly and should have NEVER become the next govt... stands to reason really and yet noone seems to have noticed and even more rarely voices the FACT.

Just my point of view and just some of my observations...

NZ needs local investment both to drive and secure the economy. The way we're structured at the moment, local investment goes into houses and banks use overseas money to invest in business.

I agree in so many ways... but if you haven't got a big population, have low salaries and a high cost of living, then there's hardly anything left to save... then your local investment has to come from overseas... costs more, round and round we go again... Something needs to change... the financial investment cycle has been shown not to work (it takes about 20 years before a recession hits?), inflation, cost of living, INTEREST etc... all of these things force prices up, people spend more on the same stuff, using the same amount of cash (because the employer refuses to give a pay rise) and have nothing to save... you just can't combat that cycle as it's ingrained in human culture... at that point, getting local investment will take more than just people saving... again though, that's just a take from the negative side...

My point entirely. There's a bunch of people here making vague statements about how the system doesn't work, or how this party or that party is at fault - but there's not a whole lot of facts being served up.

And the fact that there is always someone with a contrary view indicates a healthy democracy.

ha ha ha, you almost seemed surprised at the lack of factual evidence... the funny thing is, the system doesn't work... if it did there'd be nothing to discuss... facts when talking politics (snigger)... it's all statistics and conjecture... and after watching what the govt have been throwing at their people in regards to ACC, what the hell do facts have to do with running a country? looks like nothing to me...

Democracy is dead, has been for decades if not centuries... although it is nice to see some still hold on to it's existence...

[freedom-wedge]

More randomness.

You meander through a couple of half baked statements and then say that this is not the forum to debate them. Come back when you've upped the dosage, decreased the dosage, or given yerself five uppercuts to clear you head.

I wasn’t sure before but now I know your just an arse wipe, you and your nazi mate in the other thread, posting pics of an ss officer and you waffling and joking, about their ruthless efficiency, you probably got the video of an officer just like that killing three Jewish people in a line with one 9mm luger round, how efficient aye, and probably subscribe to the order of it didn’t happen anyway you fucking clown or do you want me to post the entire history for you Shmittenzi dog. Yawn

[freedom-wedge]

I see the point, but isn't that the whole point of a democracy? The general populace votes and decides what they want to happen. If the majority of them are so apathetic / uncaring / whatever to simply vote for the party that promises them the most, that is simply the system working as intended. However, notice what is happening here. We're talking about it. You are making your thoughts known. I'm making my known. Skyryder / SPMan / whoever are making their points known. That's people discussing politics, the government and so forth. Maybe this will sway one or two people to vote differently. Maybe not. Maybe it will end up snowballing to a point where enough people vote for a non National / non Labour government.

But that vote each of us has is one of the most powerful things in the world. It gives us the power to change things.

If I hadnt witnessed the demise of the power of the vote in the last 20 I could almost beleive in this, and by way of demise I mean the choices availabe on which to vote. I,m all for finding an alternative to the big players however I dont think they serve us well, anyway Johns gonna be busy in the minning industry soon his job will be open.

[freedom-wedge]

ha ha ha, you almost seemed surprised at the lack of factual evidence... the funny thing is, the system doesn't work... if it did there'd be nothing to discuss... facts when talking politics (snigger)... it's all statistics and conjecture... and after watching what the govt have been throwing at their people in regards to ACC, what the hell do facts have to do with running a country? looks like nothing to me...

Democracy is dead, has been for decades if not centuries... although it is nice to see some still hold on to it's existence...

[/QUOTE]

One of my points, everyone assumes that the facts and figures presented by Smith to justify ACC hikes are correct. Of course they are the Govment created them.

[Oscar]

I wasn’t sure before but now I know your just an arse wipe, you and your nazi mate in the other thread, posting pics of an ss officer and you waffling and joking, about their ruthless efficiency, you probably got the video of an officer just like that killing three Jewish people in a line with one 9mm luger round, how efficient aye, and probably subscribe to the order of it didn’t happen anyway you fucking clown or do you want me to post the entire history for you Shmittenzi dog. Yawn

Godwin strikes again

Ps.

You're
eh

[avgas]

And the fact that there is always someone with a contrary view indicates a healthy democracy.

You do know the definition of a compromise don't you.....
Both members lose. May be not a lot, may be 1 more than the other.
but BOTH LOSE

[MisterD]

You do know the definition of a compromise don't you.....
Both members lose. May be not a lot, may be 1 more than the other.
but BOTH LOSE

...and the definition of "democracy" is everyone agreeing to do what the leader wants.

[puddytat]

NZ needs local investment both to drive and secure the economy. The way we're structured at the moment, local investment goes into houses and banks use overseas money to invest in business.



.

Be a good idea to invest" our" pension fund in"our" country for a start......wouldnt've lost anywhere near as much as we did in the" GFC" if we had, instead of the arms industries & dodgy overseas banks & companies.
Seems crazy to invest it off shore, then borrow to fund development here, or worse still get foriegn companies to do all the work(i.e, in mining & oil exploration).....Here's an idea, lets invest in our education system,then we wouldnt need to import all this foreign expertise because of the lack of "skilled workers".
There's some fella running a country somwhere round here, who was once a foreign currency trader I believe...his breath stinks of Uranium too.

[MisterD]

Be a good idea to invest" our" pension fund in"our" country for a start......wouldnt've lost anywhere near as much as we did in the" GFC" if we had, instead of the arms industries & dodgy overseas banks & companies.
Seems crazy to invest it off shore, then borrow to fund development here, or worse still get foriegn companies to do all the work(i.e, in mining & oil exploration).....Here's an idea, lets invest in our education system,then we wouldnt need to import all this foreign expertise because of the lack of "skilled workers".
There's some fella running a country somwhere round here, who was once a foreign currency trader I believe...his breath stinks of Uranium too.

So I guess you missed the part about the fund managers being independent of political interference and the bit where the Liarbour party got all hot under the collar when the new government gave them some instructions to invest a proportion in local projects and companies?

I also hope that anyone who thinks it's bad that our PM has shares in a company that has uranium-mining interests, will never be going on holiday to Australia, because obviously that's endorsing a country that has a pretty big interest in that element too. Morons.

[puddytat]

Im not to proud to accept any good common sense idea from any party & I reckon that most if not nearly all be invested here.....and yes i did miss that part.
Dont really see much differance in either the Nats or Labour, Im way to the left of both of them....
Im a skeptic & so find JK's 2 "I didnt think it was important enough to declare it" moments somewhat suspect.
As for Aussie,why go there? Its the same culture,a bit like going to Auckland...Much rather go to Dirkadirkastan

[mashman]

Im not to proud to accept any good common sense idea from any party & I reckon that most if not nearly all be invested here.....and yes i did miss that part.
Dont really see much differance in either the Nats or Labour, Im way to the left of both of them....
Im a skeptic & so find JK's 2 "I didnt think it was important enough to declare it" moments somewhat suspect.
As for Aussie,why go there? Its the same culture,a bit like going to Auckland...Much rather go to Dirkadirkastan

derka derka jihad mohammed jihad ali derka... cash jihad urm derka floggitoffa translates to "we have devoted supporters... invest in it then sell it..." happens in Dirkadirkastan too apparantly

[Oscar]

You do know the definition of a compromise don't you.....
Both members lose. May be not a lot, may be 1 more than the other.
but BOTH LOSE

The fact that there's so much bleating going on in this thread about the new govt indicates that someone has won (and someone has lost).